So first of all, just want to say, it's really been a positive couple of days here and certainly today is a positive on two fronts. First and foremost, having our players released from the hospital over the course of the weekend was extremely positive occurrence for us. Happy to say that they are all progressing well and doing very, very well. I'll look forward to talking about that in a minute.
And then the other part of us being together today is just talk about our recruiting, which certainly we are very, very pleased with the way that's gone and happy for that; the class really came together.
Cannot talk about all of the prospects right now. We still have two letters of intent that are on their way back but as in years past, I think most of this stuff is old news. With the exception of a couple of guys, most of those articles have been written on days prior.
I want to thank our staff, they did an outstanding job working to put this together and it's really become a year-long endeavor, even longer than that. Our support staff has been fantastic helping us recruit and also once the prospects are on campus and as always our faculty has done a great job of giving up their time and answering the prospects questions about areas of interest and what have you.
So we are very, very pleased about that. Just feel great about the group collectively. We have 24 commitments right now. And I think we addressed needs, but more importantly I think it's a group of guys that we are very, very eager to work with. Just have a great feel. Really pleased with the way the last group progressed after a semester and I think I can anticipate the same kind of progress with this group as we start next year with these guys. It's a great group. We have 20 out of 24 of the players are captains; 23 of the 24 are multi-sport people and five of them played on state championship teams. So they have had their share of success certainly and just overall, just feel good about it.
It's a group, then, that is widespread in terms of their talents, the positions that we tried to address and we are really looking forward to working with the group as we move forward par.
Secondly I want to transition to last week and just start off by saying, first and foremost our focus was on the health and well being and privacy of our players. And again, as I mentioned a minute ago, they are all progressing well and moving forward. And the thing that we are curious about, moving forward, is certainly to determine what happened, and why it may have happened. But then also more importantly just ensure the well being of all of our players as we move forward.
A couple points that I think are important to cover. I've been a coach at this school for over 12 years, my second stay, and during that time I've also been a parent for seven and a half of those years.
So first thing I would say, our workouts, whether it be out of season or in season, are designed to be rigorous and they are also designed to be safe, and I feel that was the case in this, as well. I can also share with you that both my wife and I know firsthand what the experience is to have a kid be sick and be hospitalized and face medical challenges. And there's really nothing that's very good about that, certainly.
That being said, and when Mary and I went through this, and certainly I feel the same about last weak, the trainers at this university, the doctors and hospital staff are all first-class and just tremendous, tremendously capable and I think very compassionate and possess a lot of expertise. Two of the point people were Russ Haynes and Dr. Kyle Smoot, but again it was a team of people that worked together to make sure that our players were getting the best of care.
A little bit of a time line, certainly everything kicked in last Monday, looked at that point like we were dealing with hydration issues combined with the urine. And as we moved forward on Tuesday, certainly things began to appear a little bit more serious than what maybe we first thought. And you know, I was talking with Russ frequently during the course of the day and I think that's when it became apparent to me what we were dealing with. Certainly this is something I never had experience with, and also, I was assured by Russ that the players were receiving just tremendous care from our medical staff.
When I returned to campus on Tuesday, I really had a decision to make, and the decision I opted for was to come back to the office and spend considerable time trying to contact all of the players, we had 13 players at that time who had been admitted. I talked to nine of the parents that evening and left four voice mails and after that, I went home.
On Wednesday, I was out traveling, again, staying in contact with Russ and again, being assured that the players were doing fine. Not that they were enjoying their stay, certainly, but they were receiving good care and doing well.
And I was updated certainly, that evening, when I got back, I met with the entire group of parents that were on campus at that point and met with all of the players. Only thing I would interject there, I would suggest that perhaps my appearance that day, presence that day, could have provided a calming influence, and I may have underestimated that and I'll leave it at that.
Again, I met with the parents on Wednesday and Thursday night, met with the players and any parents that were there and we had a couple of new parents Friday and Saturday. Pretty much the same routine at that point. Fortunately we had players that were leaving, a large group on Friday, and another group on Saturday and as you know the last two players left Sunday and so very happy about that.
Just a couple of points. There's been a lot of speculation out, that came to my attention, Friday afternoon, apparently something was in the paper, I had not read all of the articles at that stage, but one of the parents brought that to my attention; heard or read that workouts may have been considered to be punitive or barbaric. And the other thing that came to my attention during the course of the week and had me thinking a little bit was the break that took place prior to the workout that greeted our players when they came back, and that is something I gave consideration to.
A couple points on those points. First of all, most importantly, I'm not aware of anything that would suggest or indicate the players did anything wrong and put themselves in harm's way. I have no knowledge of anything there. And you know, that's something as we move forward I think will become apparent.
On the topic of the punitive issue, I did read somewhere where they took Chris Doyle's words, something to the effect of, we'll find out who wants to be here. He was credited with saying that in the team meeting on Tuesday. I was not at that meeting but I think that was a fairly accurate statement. And I would also say this, I would stand by those words; and I've used those words in the past and I'll use them in the future. And, quite frankly, every day I come to work, that's something I give consideration to.
What we do here is very competitive and it requires a an awful lot of hard work. I can share this with you: I don't want to work with people who are not that committed and I don't want to coach players that are not committed, because that's really what it takes to compete successfully in this endeavor.
I don't have any problem with those words and I will say this: Our workouts are challenging by design and also safe by design and supervisioned.
Background information which I do think might be helpful. This is the fourth time we have gone through an exercise like this with our players and I'll give you the time line. In December of 2000, we ran something that was very similar to this, in December of 2007, we did, obviously, this past month, 2011, or this month, I should say, the past month, January 2011, and the other one I want to also note is June 2004 and that's probably the one I would focus on the most, because I think it's important in a couple of ways.
First of all, the idea of the concept that it was punitive; in 2004, we were coming off a convincing win over Florida in the Outback Bowl. The other thing that -- I had given consideration to was the break aspect and in June of 2004, we were coming off a four-week break. So I'm not a scientist, but again that would kind of dispel that theory a little bit.
And the only thing I would suggest about the 2004 workout that our players went through is a tougher regimen, actually, and I can tell you about it. The hardest challenge about it was the players squatted their body weight to max out. So as many reps as they possibly could using their body weight. Took two of the players, Tony Jackson, one of our tight ends weighed 265 pounds at that point and maxed out at 71 reps and Sean Considine who weighed in at 205 pounds and repped out at 80.
So, those guys went through an exercise, Chic (Ejiasi) who is on our staff was in that group, Jared Oberland, tremendous walk-on, but I tell you I've gotten one of the nicest parent letters in my career from his parents, and he was in that group, and I could go on. And I would also invite anyone -- I know you like to contact players or contact players parents, feel free to talk to anybody who was in that group because that's probably one of the toughest things we've done here in the last 12 years.
Last thing I'll say on that front, I have tremendous confidence in our entire staff and I think we have tremendous teachers, compassionate people and great mentors and I think they are just outstanding coaches. I would echo that with Chris Doyle, and I would encourage everybody to look at his body of work. He's highly respected in his profession and I'll share this with you, too.
He's probably the most sought-after coach that I've been around on a lot of levels. When we came here 12 years ago and I really felt like the backbone of our success would be our strength and conditioning program, you could not ask, I don't think, for a better person to head that up. So as we move forward, that will be very, very evident.
Talking about moving forward, I think obviously these weeks ahead are very important to all of us and I think we are looking forward to and to me the key right now is for the medical experts and scientists, and people a lot smarter than me certainly, to take a look all of the possible factors that could have effected our players. Basically what we are trying to do is analyze what may have happened and more importantly, ensure the future safety of our students athletes, and that's pretty much where we are at right now and that's about all I can say on that topic.
So with that being said, I'll be happy to throw it out to questions about either topic.
Q. Why did you choose the four times -- I believe it was four times, to have that similar workout?
COACH FERENTZ: I can't give you an exact reason but if you look at it, it's about every three to four years and probably our thinking is we want everybody somewhere during their career to go through a challenge like that, and it is challenging.
I'll interject this, too. Just on that topic. As you know, my older boy player here and was a senior in 2005 and I alluded to the Jared Oberland, I'll throw out a couple other names, Bret Chinander was a walk-on on that team, one of Brian's better friends. As a result of the experience, he walked on from a small town in Iowa, and I'm not sure if Bret even played 10 or 12 plays here but was a great team member and valued team member and today is a new father, an engineer and works in the Quad Cities and a great example to me of what this school is about and what this program is about.
And Bret was sharing with Brian fairly recently that you know one of the great things he thought about the program was doing things like that, and being pushed to bounds that he wasn't sure he could get to. And clearly, you know, squatting in 2004 has not helped him as an engineer from a physical standpoint and if you talk to Bret, and I don't want to speak for him; but I think he would tell that you that exercises like that, this whole experience has helped him as a professional and handling the challenges that he faces in a weekly mode.
Q. What would you say to -- there's a lot of harsh criticism sent your way in the last week or so; what would you say to that?
COACH FERENTZ: I would say know the facts and I would encourage people to know facts and know the people involved would be my suggestion. I'm not in the habit of defending myself although I've had ample opportunities I suppose. I encourage everybody to judge Chris Doyle by his body of work; and I would say the same thing and fortunately our recruits did that and I think the majority of our players on the team do the same thing.
Q. One of the criticisms was the timetable and you elaborated; were you in a position to get back in a quicker?
COACH FERENTZ: I could have done anything; that's for sure. That's a decision I made, and I said that's bad judgment on my part. It's a call that I made. And it's kind of like going for it on fourth down or not; sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong.
Q. How is Chris doing, handling this situation, Coach Doyle?
COACH FERENTZ: Nobody was more impacted by this than Chris. All of us were impacted and all of us were concerned about the well being of our players and Chris was in the room. He was directing that, and ultimately it's my responsibility. I'm the head coach and this was an area of Chris's expertise. All of us last week, our concern was where our players are at, what's the status and what's the prognosis moving forward.
The good news is, everything that we received from our medical staff was positive. But I'll go back to, again, I can tell you being a parent, you know, a day in the hospital or a night in the hospital seems like a week and your whole world stops.
So it's just a tough experience. It's a very tough experience and Chris made the rounds a couple of times over there and that wasn't easy, either. I think he's doing fine, think we are all doing fine. And fortunately the players are doing much better and that's the important part of that equation.
Q. A week later, are you any closer to figuring out what might have led to this?
COACH FERENTZ: That's really why I wanted to go through the time line. Again the only thing that resonated with me a little bit last week was the delay, the three-plus week delay after the bowl game.
But when I got all of the details, the 2004 break, you know, was very similar, actually, maybe a little longer. And so that kind of shot that theory out of the water. I've read about a couple of cases and the one I'm most fixated on was the South Carolina one that was recently in the paper and a couple things intrigued me there.
And No. 1 the percentage was roughly the same, seven athletes out of 41. This is 13 out of roughly 80-plus so pretty close to the same percentages. I haven't read all -- maybe as much as some people in the room have. Seems like they could not come up with anything conclusive. So outside of the exercise itself and the next step was, this is not the first time we have tried that.
So we have done something of equal challenge, at least in our opinion, four times. The question begs to be asked is what happened here and why this time and not the other three. And I take it a step further, too; I'm going to assure you, we are not the only team that trains hard and I doubt South Carolina swim team is the only swim team that trains hard. That part is a little bit intriguing to me.
COACH FERENTZ: Really that's why I look forward to the experts getting involved here. Doesn't sound they came up with much. So unless we come up with, it was a magic water bottle or something like that, we are not going to repeat this exercise, that's fairly obvious, and we'll find other ways, but we'll not repeat this exercise.
Q. What kind of conditions were the other 60-some odd guys in?
COACH FERENTZ: It's a wide range. I don't know if this answers or is connected but the article I read from Friday where you know, a medical expert was quoted, he suggested that maybe the players did some things over the weekend.
I'm looking at this, I can't imagine our sampling of the student body is much different this year than it was in 2000, 2004 or 2007. So that one to me it's going to be tough. I mentioned I've had two sons in the program; James Ferentz played on a bad ankle for a significant amount of time last year. He basically rested throughout the month of January during the break and I can promise you, he was not in peak condition when he returned to the program.
You know, he came out of the room, he was sore and stiff obviously but didn't -- this is something way over my head and hopefully the medical experts ask scientists can figure that out and come up with a determination.
Q. When do you anticipate the 13 guys to return to their workouts?
COACH FERENTZ: I would not want to pinpoint a time. I can just say this; Dr. Kyle Smoot has headed up the team throughout this entire period and did a great job last week and I spoke with him last week, or yesterday, and I think he's got an idea, they are currently researching. Again, there are not a lot of instances in collegiate sports.
So they are researching right now. Only thing I can tell you, they are going to be very prudent and cautious and make sure no players are at risk before they return. So I can imagine we are probably talking about -- I don't even want to say but it won't be a matter of hours or a couple of days. We will be smart about how they reenter.
Q. You talked about there were some hard feelings; do you anticipate losing any players over this?
COACH FERENTZ: I don't anticipate it but I certainly can't answer that other than I don't anticipate it.
Q. Are you in a position to give us the names of the athletes?
COACH FERENTZ: There's some out there but no, we can't do that.
Q. A lot of former athletes rushed to your side; Pat, probably the biggest name out there. Is this just a case of, you can't judge it until you've done it?
COACH FERENTZ: Yeah, and you know, the only thing I would say about that -- first of all I appreciate any player that did and a lot more that obviously didn't go public.
But that's one of the reasons I brought up Brett, I can throw Will Lack who stays very close to this program, I would venture to say he is one of the smartest if not the smartest players that came through here, went to Harvard Medical School and now finishing medical training here. Jay Bickford, he was a one-year player for us and really had to work hard to get in the starting lineup.
Will never got to play except in clean-up duty but he would tell you, a really important part of his life was being on the team here. And I'll point to those guys more so -- you would expect Chad to be happy, he's a first round draft pick and having a great NFL career. What a delight he was to coach then and I consider him a friend.
When you talk about all of the players the fans don't know, when you talk about the value of having a good team and football program, to me -- we are not here to produce NFL players and it's a great by-product and I'm thrilled to death for every guy that etc. Gets the opportunities but we are here to help guys move along and hopefully this exercise is something that's going to benefit their real lives, not that playing pro NFL isn't, a real life, but it isn't. It's a fantasy world, and it's a hard world but it's a fantasy world. Real life is having a job and being a spouse. That's real life.
Q. Did you run into any negative recruiting throughout this?
COACH FERENTZ: You know, negative recruiting unfortunately is part of what we do or what we encounter, and it's just I think a real small group of people that do that. But it happens nonetheless.
I'm not sure if it was any more dramatic this year than any other year. You know I think again, it speaks to the players that decide to come with us. I think they took their time and did their homework and talked to the right people and seeing is believing. Cooper was here last weekend on campus, and you know, he knows Marcus, has known him for six, seven years, eight, I'm not sure exactly but they played little league football together and have a great relationship. Darian had a great opportunity to talk some -- he was in here the weekend after those exercises.
Again what it speaks to is the recruits did their due diligence, they did their research and I think they all feel very, very comfortable about the way things are and I think they understand none of us would ever put a player at risk, intentionally. That was not the design.
Q. Did you get a lot of questions from recruits parents at that point, too?
COACH FERENTZ: We tried to be proactive. It's the elephant in the room, one of those deals. So when this all happened, we tried to be as proactive as we possibly could.
Q. You might have a couple people commit without being on campus; is that rare?
COACH FERENTZ: It's unusual. Most notably would be Quinton Alston. Darryl and I stopped by there that Friday morning, the first Friday, we were allowed out after the Bowl game and as you know he had committed to another institution. So we had stopped by there and he called me later that night, he and his mom met with us at school and he called me that night. I was at my next stop, and it was great news. And then, you know, he's just a tremendous young man. So it is unusual, but it happens.
Q. Can you talk about Rudock and what you saw in him early on?
COACH FERENTZ: I don't want to say he's this year's Marcus Coker but the parallel I would draw is when he was here in June, he was being recruited pretty heavily, but I'm just guessing he may have been recruited a little bit more heavily if he had not been committed this season.
We are thrilled. Just all of the intangible things that he possesses. You know, obviously we want guys that can throw the ball accurately and have to have requisite talent but all of the things that made us feel good and the fact that he led his team to a state championship, I think is real indicative to the young man he is, he's a great leader and humble guy and very, very modest and I would not say unassuming, but it's not all about him; but yet, he's the catalyst in my opinion, the success they have had, he played on a very good team, very well coached team and a big part of what they did.
When he came up here in June, he came up for a visit with his folks and to meet with the staff and take a look at the school. But we had a senior camp that day and he chose to go out and compete that day. We had already offered him the scholarship, it was not like a tryout or anything like that but he chose to go out there and compete and he was more impressive throwing the ball than us looking at him as a junior. To me it really showed that he was a really confident guy and believed in himself and boy, I tell you, we were thrilled when he did commit.
Q. How about the group of running backs that you signed?
COACH FERENTZ: We are excited about the group, and you know, some of the guys we are aware of, and obviously the most recent developments, Damon Bullock that, happened kind of late and also -- Jordan is just a really intriguing guy and I mentioned the parallel between Jake's recruitment and Marcus' and I think with I don't remember Dan also, like the Mike Daniels story: Some way, some how tape ended up on my desk about 12, 14 days ago, somewhere in that ballpark a week ago Sunday, and the obvious question is, who is recruiting this guy. And I looked at it and thought who is recruiting this guy and why is it only the list that was on my desk at that point. It was actually the same school that Mike was leaning towards.
And you know the only obvious thing was size, I guess that was probably the thing and we made a mistake already on Danny Woodhead and we are not going to make another one. That part of the conversation with Jordan. He was worried about his size, we blew that one on Danny Woodhead, 177 pounds when he went to Chad Ron State and did not want to blow it again. You have to go by what you see on tape and the passion he plays, with the toughness he plays and the determination, that really -- told his dad we are not going to ask him to rebound. We just want him to run the football. So we are really excited about him.
Q. Does Adam Robinson have the opportunity to get back on this football team?
COACH FERENTZ: I don't know if I can answer it. I have not given it much thought. I made an announcement a while back and I have been really focused on recruiting so we will go from there.
Q. The parents last week -- was that a conscientious exchange or what can you say about the exchange? What can you tell them?
COACH FERENTZ: First of all just what I said earlier, my wife and I both know what it's like to have a kid sick in the hospital and there's nothing fun about that. It was a mixed group and I can't even tell you right now how many people were there that evening. One thing you notice when a player or one of your children is in the hospital, you run a gamut of emotions. So I guess there's a blessing in that with what we went through back in 2004, I better knew what to expect in the situation.
Q. Overreacting like we all do after every win and loss, but over the past week, we have seen more questioning accountability and saying leadership lacking, where does that strike you, because you've been here for 12 years.
COACH FERENTZ: Just off the top of my head I would point to two things. It's the world we live in and I understand that. I go through it at least 12 weeks every fall so I understand that part.
Then the second part is, and this is just wishful thinking, anybody that's going to author a comment written or verbal, to have all of the facts and know the parties involved. That's not realistic and I know that and you weather it and you stand by what it is you do and who you are and that's kind of life, isn't it. That's the way it goes.
Q. Do workouts stop or how is that going forward?
COACH FERENTZ: Not at all. I talked to the team last Friday, we had a team meeting on Friday and then fortunately I had more information about the players being released, but such as the details of the 2004 workout. And I met with the group as we came in on Monday. We had three groups; one at 6:00, one at 8:00 and one at 2:00 and shared information with our players. And part of the message I delivered to them, again, is that we are going to word hard.
And we worked hard in December. And we are going to work hard moving forward. We have to but we are also going to work as smartly as we can. And again, on Monday I could better tell the players, sitting from where I'm sitting, I just cannot pinpoint a cause for this. It's to me very random in that we went three times without incident, and now this, and from what I know, it's not a typical thing that happens.
But all that being said, we are not going to repeat this exercise unless somebody tells us it's a safe thing to do. We can't run that risk again and we won't. We are going to work hard. This is a tough sport for tough people. There's no other way to put it, and you know, but all that being said, certainly, we are all sick about it and just worried about the kids in the hospital and just glad they are out and glad they are doing well.
Q. Just to clarify the time line, you were here Tuesday and players were in the hospital and you left to go recruiting Wednesday, the day of the press conference?
COACH FERENTZ: That's correct.
Q. Two high school players from Iowa, in both Austin and Henry, even if they red-shirt, seems like, even if they do red-shirt they will create competition.
COACH FERENTZ: I tell you, I think all of the -- we have a good feel about all of the guys but about those guys. Henry is a young guy that's a multi-sport athlete, did a lot of things and has great ball skills. I think he kind of fits in the mold of Brendan Myers and Allen Reisner, good basketball player, good athlete, just does a lot of things well and we have had great success with a lot of guys like that and the two I just alluded to certainly fit that biil so really happy about that; and Austin, it was like a lot of guys that I had, only a little further along and I reference our starting center right now; if you compare the two guys, their ages, body structure and size, all that type of thing, Austin is light years ahead, an excellent attitude and tremendous young man and a great competitor so we are really, really thrilled about him, too.
Q. Can you talk about your offensive linemen in this class?
COACH FERENTZ: Yeah, both Austin and Jordan are guys that I think are really excellent high school football players. Jordan comes out of a tremendous program and we have tried to recruit players out of that program unsuccessfully and we are just really excited to get Jordan.
And Dan was semi-accidental in that we don't actively recruit junior college players but he came to our attention and liked what we saw on tape and thought that he would be a really good fit and we are excited about him, too.
Q. Can you talk about Darryl Wilson and the job that he did with this class?
COACH FERENTZ: No question, and our biggest challenge I think in recruiting, two things, is perception. This is -- some people try to portray this to be like Green Acres and the second part would be distance. It's hard.
We have to travel in recruiting. It's just one of the challenges that we face and Darryl did an outstanding job. A big thing in recruiting, going back to my time in the 80s -- interesting, I got a great e-mail from Andre Tippett, whatever day it would have been, Monday I suppose, and that's, again, the beauty of a program, and the beauty of the people that you're involved with.
So that meant a lot to me. But when Bernie did such a great job recruiting players in the 80s, it's all because players came from there, had good success and felt comfortable here and a lot of guys are settled here, Norm Grainger, lives up in Waterloo.
So when players come from an area and have success and feel comfortable in your program, they are the best salespeople for the people in your program right now. And I think that helped having Marcus here and having him experience success like he did was a good thing for us. There's a cumulative effect and hopefully we can continue to do well and Darryl does an outstanding job, extremely thorough and just covers every detail. And I think it's easy for prospects to like Darryl and trust him and believe in him.
Q. Right now you have three linebackers -- how do you see that group sorting it out?
COACH FERENTZ: We'll wait and see. We'll get them on campus and last year is about as high a number of first-year players that we have had that have played and we will probably continue on in that vein. It has continued to work well for us so realistically, maybe one or two will play but the rest will redshirt. But, feel real good about those guys, building a good nucleus there. Been hit pretty hard the last two years at that position and certainly our injuries last year, between that and the running back position, really affected our team and affected our special teams as well.
Q. If you could have done anything differently last week -- is it that simple -- what would you have done differently?
COACH FERENTZ: I probably would have altered -- I'll answer the question. Would I have altered my schedule some way. I guess I could have gone to the hospital Tuesday even. I think that would have been disruptive, by the time I left here it was pretty late. So maybe I should have delayed my departure Wednesday and instead of meeting in the evening and seeing the players in the evening, flip-flopped the order of that.
But you know, that's behind us right now. Again, I'm not sure I -- and the one thing I was confident was that our players were getting great care.
Q. Rodney Coe, there's a lot of speculation and he played linebacker in that Bowl game, 6-3 and 250-ish already; is he a running back until it's out of his system?
COACH FERENTZ: You know, if he can hold at that area, 250, 255, maybe -- but if he outgrows it that won't be a bad thing, but our intentions are to play him at running back and we have shared that with him and we are excited about that. We think he's a good running back.
Q. John Raymond, how do you find him?
COACH FERENTZ: Credit goes to Darryl and I believe Rick was out there somewhere in April/May, that spring recruiting period. And you know, we were just really enthused and more importantly, it's what drew him to us. I'm still a little perplexed by that because he had a strong enthusiasm for our program through the spring recruiting and came out in June. And he's pretty much set on the program so we are awfully happy that he is.
Q. You're making a pretty big inroad with the DeMatha program. Talk about that and obviously producing talent.
COACH FERENTZ: Bill McGregor is a veteran coach, very respected coach, and has done a phenomenal job there for a long, long time. And really it's a new area for us, relatively, and certainly last year getting Marcus out of there, we were just ecstatic about that.
And this semester, we are even more ectatic; just an outstanding young guy, great student and he has the potential to be a really good football player for us. And again as I just said, I think when a player has experience and good experience, a positive experience, not only in football but in all areas, I think he believes in our program and believes in the university and likes living here. So when prospects come out from your neighborhood or area or school, it's a good thing and certainly that helped us, I think, with both Jordan and Darian.