<KyleBogie> Good Monday to everyone!
<hehateme3> wow was expecting a few more chomping at th ebit tonite
<KyleBogie> Just want to start by saying I know aa ton of you ae frustrated and we are going to discuss it all tonight BUT in order to post this transcript please keep / refrain from using any naughty words in our chat :) thank you
<dave76> no kidding!
<dave76> All the complaining and problems/issues this team has, but they were real close to beating that PSU team by double digits on the road after the horrible start
<dave76> I'm certainly not saying this team doesn't have its fair share of issues
<hehateme3> sure...we have soem talent...so why not.....but the horrible start....run game...oline....playcalling.. 27 for 27
<hehateme3> beyond bad
<dave76> I'm wondering why Deveon isn't getting some carries
<rgarg1> Kyle..shouldn't Borges be fired and Hoke escoriated for that horrible coaching job at PSU? Gave the game away. Hoke looks like a clueless clown on the sidelein
<hehateme3> i'm not buying the youth....not against the teams we have played
<KyleBogie> It is remarkable how close this team is to 6-0.
<dave76> and 3-3
<KyleBogie> Problem is, the schedule gets a lot tougher now...
<dave76> This team might lose to SParty by 10+
<hehateme3> playing who though...? what happens NW/MSU/Neb/OSU
<KyleBogie> dave76. I'm wondering why either of the freshmen aren't getting carries. Clearly it's not working with Fitz. I know a lot of that has to do with the OL but still. Give it a shot right?
<dave76> They actually seem to be improving
<KyleBogie> dave76. Absolutely.
<MichiganNumber1> I think we will be in every game the rest of the year, whether we win or not is a tossup.
<hehateme3> dave: msu improving?
<guthrie> msu is DEFINITELY improving
<dave76> I haven't been impressed by Green. But he hasn't gotten enough reps to form an opinion I guess
<guthrie> their offense is better by leaps and bounds. almost unrecognizable from the first two games
<hehateme3> a LOT of teams stumble in beginning but by halfway point start making strides.... that HAS to be this weekend for us
<dave76> MSU will dink and dunk us to death. We can't cover in space
<dave76> Which is funny, because that's what our West Coast offense is supposed to do
<KyleBogie> dave76. Problem with Green is they put him in for a play and take him out. Why not give him a series and see if he brings something to the table and gets into a rhythm?
<dave76> According to Aair16 anyway
<KyleBogie> MSU is getting better. If they can score some poins that defense will win them the game.
<dave76> agree Kyle
<guthrie> If if if if if Hoke and company will stop attemtpting to be a power running team and will thorow the ball 70/30 vs. run, we will be absolutely fine and we are mort than a match for everyone on the schedule
<KyleBogie> What I think is gonna happen in East Lansing is, the Michigan coaches are gonna go up thre looking for a dog fight, try to run the football and out "tough" MSU and the Spartans will eat them up and the approach will get more and more conservative.
<hehateme3> i guess the question is....can Gardner succeed in Al's O? sounds like HOke is against more spread looks
<dave76> Devin on the road in EL = TO machine vs. that defense. And the playcalling will go into ultra conservative mode. Again.
<hehateme3> Kyle....that is a scary thought
<KyleBogie> guthrie. We already heard today, that's not liikely. Which I think is a mistake. He also said Borges did a nice job of adapting as the game went on. I didn't see that...
<guthrie> beating sparty is easy. Devin in shotgun. wait for them to blitz. gallon or funchess in slot. blitz comes, hit slot. over and over and over and over. msu doesn't know how to do anything but bluitz. be but if we STUBBORNLY insist on putting devin under denter, we will get utterly destroyed
<dave76> I'm sick of hearing Hoke at the pressers.
<dave76> I realize he isn't going to give anything away
<hehateme3> but come on.....Hoke puts a lot of protective sauce on his coach speak.....
<dave76> But he just spews out the BS week after week
<guthrie> i honetstly don't think Borges is the problem. I think Hoke is demanding he establish their power running identity. Borges seems to like the short passing game to open up the run to open up downfield throws. I think it's Hoke that wants the tough guy runs.
<hehateme3> was LC any different at pressers?
<kazoowolve> guth. Sparty can cover people in space better than anyone I have seen in a long time
<dave76> I just want an answer as to what exactly Borges's system is???
Remember all the people who started pining the Fort mentality under RR ?
<dave76> I hear it is all about the short pass
<rgarg1> Kyle...is Hoke 'man' enough to fire assistant coaches like Borges and Funk who are clearly not getting the job done
<dave76> But all I see is Devin hold onto the ball too long and then chuck it deep. Just like the last two years with Denard
<guthrie> kazoo, when they are blitzing two linebackers up the A gaps then I''ll take Funchess or Gallon to beat their third LB in getting open all day.
<KyleBogie> rgarg1. EEk. I think it's too early to say that. Either way, not sure of his past history...
<guthrie> just my undeducated opinion, of course
<dave76> Guthrie, you have a ton of faith in Devin on the road then
<guthrie> i do
<guthrie> it's irrational, but i do
<dave76> That game gets more scary by the week. UM might not get 25 yds rushing in that game
<KyleBogie> Ya know what came to my mind watching the Penn State game? PSU is rolling out a n 18-year old QB, true freshman, throwing the football intermediate and down the field, and running a HIGH TEMPO attack. Impressive. Where as Michigan has a redshirt junior and doesn't have organization anywhere on O.
<guthrie> another opinion i hold is that devin is falling into the trap of being tied to the play that is being sent in. he needs more freddom to improvise. When he is married to the play, he decides where the ball is supposed to go before the snap. and that's why he trhwos throws the bal to spots where there are obvious defenders.
<hehateme3> was Hoke's pooch punt at PSU the same call LC made OSU in 05?
<dave76> Seriously though, can anyone explain why UM/Devin don't throw any short passes? When they do, it seems effective.
<guthrie> i pray UM doesn't rush the ball AT ALL against sparty.. You absolutely can't beat MSU running the ball.
<dave76> I thought that was the West Coast O
<rgarg1> Kyle, is Hoke honestly a fat fool? He thought Borges made nice adjustments. Dantonio is 10x the coach as Hoke
<guthrie> same question here, dave
<dave76> Nobody will answer it
<Dizzo> Bogie - PSU is able to do that because they have no expectations at all. They aren't playing for a bowl game, they are playing a true freshman, so you might as well open it up because 8-4 or 6-6 makes no real difference.
<guthrie> it's even more baffling because it worked SO DAMN WELL against ND
<KyleBogie> guthrie/dave76. That's odd to me too. Last year Devin was MONEY on the short, timing routes. Defenses doing different things totake it away
<dave76> BTW....so who is jackgold?
<dave76> THey don't even try it Kyle.
<KyleBogie> In the passing game, Devin is very indiecisive even on quick outs and curls. He hesitates, and I know it looks like a pump fake, and it culd be for all I know, but to me it looks like a double pump to make sure it's open.
<dave76> Or else Devin holds the ball too long
<guthrie> no clue, but it sounds like he actually met Bump Elliott so he must have been around a while.
<KyleBogie> Dizzo. So you mean playing to win as opposed to playing not to lose?
<dave76> And Tom said if we only knew who he was.........we'd think criticizing him was odd
<KyleBogie> Just funny how that works.
<guthrie> I'm firmly convinced Borges wants to run those quick out thorows. He wants to make those the short running game, in effect. And I think Brady is telling him, "knock it off".
<dave76> It's just amazing what UM can't/doesn't do
<kinmedic> hey everyone
<dave76> Rush the passer, play man coverage, get some other RB's some carries
<rgarg1> Kyle...if Hoke not willing to aknowledge or make the right adjustments (ie, run less and throw to our pretty good targets), how can he be considered a good coach?
<bhollen> against better judgment ...
<KyleBogie> gthrie. Could be. In Devin's 5 starts last year that WAS the running game and it was very effective.
<rgarg1> Sounds like a stubborn mule. Have not been this upset at UM coach since RR days or App State game
<KyleBogie> rgarg1. I'm not sure what to make of it. The run blocking and pass blocking might be so bad it's just pick your poison at this point.
<rgarg1> Hoke is really becoming a laughingstock. Really starting to hate his arrogance
<guthrie> it's simply not believable to me that Borges, a dyed in the wool west coast guy who has shown many times he LOVES the short passing game as a substituet for running is suddenly saying, "screw it, i wanna run my RB into a wall". I believe he is on orders about what UM football is going to be.
TomBeaver is now a Room Moderator in michigan
<dave76> He's just a page out of the LC book is all. Sissy play caller. Good recruiter. BSer in the pressers
<TomBeaver> HI GUYS
<dave76> Won't play young guys if he doesn't absolutely have to
<KyleBogie> It was just amazing to watch that PSU game -- we knew they were going to run the ball up the middle but there was zero confidence theyd get anything. They were just doing it to do it.
<KyleBogie> Similar to the end of the game. One more first down -- ONE MORE -- and that game is over. Instead they gave it to Fitz three times KNOWING they'd get nothing. Actually Devin did a draw once I believe, but stilll.
<dave76> ANd again, with all of those issues and the bad start......they nearly beat that PSU team by double digits.
<TomBeaver> BTW ... my old coach-buddy really took it easy on Brady after the loss ... said it was a one-in-million shot for PSU to score in 20 seconds like they did, and that U-M had good coverage on all the throws
<rgarg1> dave76...agree with you bro
<bluewolve> We have had the same offensive game plan for every game.
<TomBeaver> And the missing the kicks was one of those things, and fluky
<TomBeaver> So ... he chalked it up to a fluke
<Dizzo> Bogie - completely agree on playing to win. Was texting my friends during the game that we were playing not-to-lose, just like Va Tech did in the Sugar Bowl when we beat them. Said it would come back to bite us and it did.
<dave76> Kyle, part of that is Devin's turnovers though. Imagine if he'd have thrown an INT there.........we'd have been soooooooooo upset at the playcalling
<rgarg1> Tom, made props to you when you mentioned this game was similar to UM gave vs. PSU in 2010...and that PSU team was a lot better in 2010
<guthrie> Here's my thoery . . .theory. And I don't think it's ridiculous. Hoke and company have identified the teams they feel they are obviously going to beat. CMU, Akron, Uconn, PSU and probably Indiana. In those games, Hoke has made the executive decision that we are going to run the damn ball until we learn how to do it right. he wants actual game prep form the power running game. but he also knows it isn't all that good yet
<TomBeaver> Me, I just hate watching first down .. simple as that ... that reminds me too much of the LC days
<rgarg1> Kyle..that is why I really have given up on Hoke/Borges. What the heck was that playcalling about. Screen to Gallon is a 1st down
<guthrie> so against teams he thinks we might lose to (i.e. ND and some teams coming up) he allows Borges to call the short throws instead of runs.
<bonesnjnts> guth--hows the shoulder?
<KyleBogie> dave76. I guess if I'm the coach I'd rather lose on a mistake than lose playing scared. I get it but still.
<Dizzo> The PSU loss was karmic retribution for all the wins we've had in the last 3 years that were close calls. The Notre Dame UTL-1 drive was what PSU got at the end of the game. The Robinson catch over Stribling was equivalent to Roundtree vs. Northwestern. Us missing the field goal in OT was like Va Tech in the Sugar Bowl. We got payback for all those games because the coaches played scared at the end, period.
<guthrie> it's getting there, bones
<KyleBogie> Dizzo. It was incredible.
<dave76> They are excrutiating to watch at times.
<bonesnjnts> sounds like a relationship
<kn212003> Tom - I was literally screaming at my TV, Just stand up and throw the *expletive* ball to Gallon, nobody w/in 10 yards and he's 1 on 1
<TomBeaver> Dizzo -- something like that ... lol ... 'course I believe in karma
<dave76> Agreed Dizzo.
<outcastinohio> Is it really possible that they are so despirate on offense that they would burn Bosch's redshirt halfway through the year?
<guthrie> sure sounds like it
<TomBeaver> I don't understand not-just-kicking FGs in OT instead of running bad running plays 3 times first ... just asking for fumble-trouble when they're getting hit in the backfield every time
<dave76> Devin does not see the field well, at least not consistently
<KyleBogie> Even in overtime. Kicker had already missed, why not attempt to give Funchess a couple chances in the end zone? Obviously, always easy to say this when you're not on the sideline.
<guthrie> relying on a true fredshman to fix your woes . . . sure sign of desperation and it never works
<TomBeaver> But, like I said, my coach-buddy wasn't critical at all really ... somewhat of the play-calling
<snic2u> I only believe in karma chameleons Tom
<KyleBogie> dave76. I think that is a problem as well.
<guthrie> nah, snic. they come and go.
<skuzzim> on the final drive. there were two passes to the best wr in the big ten. on the first, he was covered by a five foot nine inch cb. no safety was close. no blitz was on. on the second pass to the one food line, same receiver was covered by a freshman (who played the ball very well). but, there was no safety within ten yards...on a long pass to the one foot line.....with no blitz.
<TomBeaver> For me, the end of regulation and the OTs were like a bad dream that I couldn't wake up from ... it seemed like it went on forever
<rgarg1> Tom, Hoke and borges are stubborn and they deserve the vitriol directed at them. UM charges arm/leg for tickets, big money. They lost that game for us. Unacceptable
<bonesnjnts> so glad my wife made plans and i couldnt watch the game live
<snic2u> true guthrie
<Dizzo> I think everyone agress our 1st down playcalling pretty much sucks. Why haven't we used one of those Devin-bootlegs that we've scored like 5 TDs o in the redzone? Fake the handoff going strong side, have the defense crash, and roll Devin the other way taking off to the corner? The way defenses ar playing us that type of play seems like we'd get 30 yards easy.
<dave76> I just cannot believe that Devin, the OL, the RB's, the DL are all HUGE letdowns this year
<kinmedic> Is there any clue why they never went to Funchess once in the overtimes? He was killing it for the most part all game (minus a couple of dropped TDs) but they didn't look at him once
<TomBeaver> wonder how many empty seats there'll be this Saturday ...
<dave76> I bet they roll IU
<guthrie> no one was complaining about the first down play calling against ND. Because Al was allowed to call all those short passes. Just sayin.
<TomBeaver> I'm done talking about Saturday's game ... too painful to keep rehashing it
<outcastinohio> The quickest way to get Dave Brandon's attention would be a boatload of empty seats.
<guthrie> student wsection will be 1/2 empty.
<snic2u> If there are empty seats and they are students tom, then the board will complain
<guthrie> but Brandon will say it's half full
<dave76> Anyone calling for this staff to be fired is an idiot
<bonesnjnts> anything to aggravate brandon and im happy
<dave76> Just what we need is another transition
<guthrie> no kidding, dave
<outcastinohio> Tom, Are they really despirate enough to burn Bosch's redshirt 6 games in? That just reeks panic.
<guthrie> i can see getting rid of a couple guys, though
<kinmedic> I agree Dave but our oline has regressed...Funk should be acountable no?
<dave76> They're 5-1 and hail mary away from 6-0
<bonesnjnts> does anyone here listen to wtka in the morning?
<TomBeaver> MSU student section was over half empty last Saturday ... so it's a common occurance now ... you can't just put any product on the field and have the kids come out to watch it
<dave76> Flaws? Sure, plenty.
<Dizzo> dave76 - I agree partly on the staff. Ripnice's thread that he'd rather have Ferentz was just ludicrous. Borges should be questioned, but to suggest you'd rather have Ferentz over Hoke is just plain wrong.
<dave76> Ferentz!?!?! Hahahaha
<TomBeaver> Bosch -- I'm guessing others have a better shot at playing than him ... but that's just a guess
<rgarg1> Don't see how we beat OSU or MSU at this point. Dantonio is a jerk but seemingly develops his players/less stubborn then Hoke is
<guthrie> The real issue for student attendance is that we're a basketball school. who cares about football. :-)
<dave76> But...there are some disturbing trends that seem to be happening right now with this staff
<TomBeaver> rgarg - I think MSU could well kick our butts ... hope I'm wrong
<bonesnjnts> i made that joke earlier today, guthj
<kinmedic> Tom, why do you think it's a definite NO to move Schofield to LG and start Mags at RT?
<guthrie> rgarg, msu fans HATE dantonio's stubbornness
<dave76> Agree Tom
<guthrie> took him forever to get rid ouf Roushar
<TomBeaver> Schofield is not moving ... strong IMO
<dave76> Becasue of the playcalling we'll see in EL.
<KyleBogie> It reminded me of the OSU game last year. Michigan should've beaten that team. Got conveservative in the second half, bad play calls in short yardage situations and they let OSU take it back.
<Dizzo> kinmedic - The OL is not playing well, but what do you expect Funk to do with 2 walkons and 2 RS Freshman playing the whole second half? Our 4 upper-classmen players are Lewan, Schofield, Miller, and Bryant. Miller and Bryant have both played and been benched at this point, so there is literally nobody else outside of inexperienced freshman or walkons
<guthrie> Schofield shouldn't be moved. Show him some damn respect.
<TomBeaver> MSU O is improving, and their D is excellent, way better than ours right now
<outcastinohio> Tom, what does it mean for Brady and the staff should we get blown up by Sparty and OSU? Which is looking pretty possible right now.
<bonesnjnts> will be anxious all leading up to msu game---not feeling it at all
<kinmedic> I underst and the thoughts on that Tom but was just curious since Mags seemed to hold his own
<TomBeaver> outcast -- that will be interesting, won't it
<guthrie> Dizzo, but don't you wonder why none of the highly touted recruits from the last two years is even close to game ready? I mean NONE of them.
<dave76> GUthrie - you hit it right there.
<dave76> I think player development is an issue
<kinmedic> Hey Diz, I agree but there are many other teams that their olines are playing well with less
<kn212003> Tom/Kyle - Any commits having second thoughts?
<snic2u> you mean like countess?
<dave76> Or they just WON't play young kids
<TomBeaver> pureguess on my part is that Schofield sacrificed one year in playing LG and they won't do it to him again ... to help his NFL status .. sumpin ike that
<dave76> What happened to Dymonte?
<kinmedic> thanks Tom, good point
<rgarg1> Tom, how does MSU with 2/3 stars >> UM
<dave76> Good coaching Rgarg
<TomBeaver> they'll ask another young guy before asking Schofield again ... but, again, that's a pure guess
<snic2u> and funchess you mean young guys like that?
<guthrie> i agree tom and i think that's exactly how it should be handled. don't punish the guy for being a rock.
<Dizzo> guth - I do wonder a little bit, but look at each case. Kugler and Fox were seriously injured. Tuley-Tillman was clearly not an early contributor. Samuelson was a late addition and not expected to be an early starter. Dawson, like most Cass Tech kids is lacking technique and physique at a young age. Bosch is in the mix..
<dave76> Oh wow, you named one guy
<kinmedic> Do you guys think that players aren't getting developed or maybe they need to relook at what they're looking for in oline when recruiting
<snic2u> 2 actually
<dave76> What about Green, Smith, Demario. Hell, even Norfleet doesn't get enough touches on an offense that needs a spark
<TomBeaver> Dymonte - I think he's okay but other s are simply doing better, and they don't rotate in the backfield
<Dizzo> Guth (continued) - Kalis is starting. Magnuson is 1st guy in. Braden is on the 2-deep, but haven't seem him yet. Not sure what's going on there. Bars wasn't really highly-touted, but again haven't heard his name so he's not ready.
<snic2u> i think norfleet will be like hester
<kn212003> You guys think our OL is bad this year? We are losing 2 pros after the season and adding in RS Soph or RS Fr
<outcastinohio> Will everyone stop panicing about the young linemen especially the freshman.
<snic2u> just like denard should have been
<rgarg1> hoke is a joke. msu will kill us
<TomBeaver> commits aren't gonna have second thoughts based on one super-close away game ... if it snowballs, then we'll see
<kinmedic> why do they rotate so much on D? That cost us a couple times when PSU went hurry-up
<guthrie> But it certainly appears Kalis is not at all game ready yet. Same for Magnuson. Braden . . . I have a feeling he had an off field issue so the coaches are sending a message by not letting him play this year.
<dave76> Mattison has really disappointed this year too, IMO
<dave76> That defense is weak
<skuzzim> is there any semblance of good news? bb recruiting or anything
<guthrie> rgarg, you need to slow your roll man. :-) gonna have a heart attack
<snic2u> i ageww dave but he gets very little heat here
<TomBeaver> Indiana took MSU into the second half ... so it could get interesting this Saturday, IMO. They play hurry-up spread-O ... U-M had trouble against hurry-up Saturday and Mattison wants to sun substitute
<kinmedic> they show in spurts though dave. I was really impressed with Wormley on Saturday. I felt he was one of our better contributers
<dave76> Nope. People love him.
<dave76> That DL is subpar
<TomBeaver> Wormley - agree ... he had a little breakthrough, at a good time
<snic2u> and most hate borges cuz he aint rr
<Dizzo> Guthrie - So we've got guys in the rotation as RS Freshman, but in reality how many RS freshman OL are that great? Lewan played, but remember all the penalties he got that were drive killers? And that was with experienced guys like Schilling and Molk on the line.
<TomBeaver> guth - for Kalis is't mental, learning what to do, when
<TomBeaver> for Kalis it's mental
<TomBeaver> that's why my IMO is that he's in the tryout this week too
<guthrie> yes. he's just not game ready yet
<dave76> There really hasn't been a pleasant surprise on this team has there?
<snic2u> i agree dizzo. OL needs at least a redshirt to begin to get where they need to be
<kn212003> Borges' crappy O still put up 27 points, that should have been enough to win against a Frosh QB
<kinmedic> Kalis is still playing ok but has some mental lapses for sure
<dave76> Maybe Funch
<bonesnjnts> wow...this chat is kinda depressing
<dave76> you knew it would be
<bonesnjnts> i forgot.
<kinmedic> I agree bones
<guthrie> mattison is going to always get a bit of a pass after turning the 115th best (worst) defesnse into a top 20 group in one year with the same personnel
<fishtaxi> kyle do you know how blackmons visit to stae this weekend went ??
<KyleBogie> fishtaxi. Have not heard anything as of yet.
<guthrie> i'm incluined to think mattison should be given that leeway
<kinmedic> but honestly, PSU had nothing to lost. O'Brien went for it on fourth and one in overtime. They played like they were "all in"
<dave76> Tom, any hints on who jackgold is???
<kinmedic> we didn't, simply as that
<fishtaxi> kyle is that good or bad?
<Dizzo> Bones - Michigan fans are like Ricky Bobby. We had a bad crash during the RR years and now everyone freaks out at any adversity like we're on fire, stabbing ourselves in the leg.
<bonesnjnts> i think blackmon looks like terrance howard
<TomBeaver> to me the most interesting thing on the Ol was that they played no worse with Lewan out ... if anything to me, they played a little better
<TomBeaver> and they had no trouble protecting Devin with Lewan out, IIRC
<dave76> Agree Tom. We were all commenting on that at my house during the game
<snic2u> i thought the same thing Tom. why is that i wonder?
<KyleBogie> fishtaxi. Neither. Sam may have touchd base with his dad, haven't heard yet though
<TomBeaver> dave76 - nah, not fair to him .. but he's no fool, I'll tell you that
<guthrie> the reason why is because they stopped all the cutesy crap once Lewan went out
<skuzzim> someone alluded to a good question. which player has most exceded expectations
<Dizzo> Tom - One thing was with Lewan in they did, from my untrained eye, a lot of complex stuff.
<fishtaxi> thanks kyle
<kinmedic> Is there any truth to Aair's comments that Hoke is holding Borges back on the play calling? Can Al really be that inept to run Fitz over and over when he gains nothing
<snic2u> i passed on the am/Ole Miss game so i could watch ours
<guthrie> no more flipping tackles out to the opposite side as TE's and asking poor blocking TE's to act as the left tackle
<dave76> I think he was fairly accurate Tom
<guthrie> it's not because we didn't miss Lewan
<dave76> How 'bout you?
<TomBeaver> kinmdeic - Al does what he wants, IMO
<Dizzo> One sack on Devin was with that unbalanced line where A.J. Williams was acting like a LT and got smoked, with Devin getting crushed from the behind
<KyleBogie> guthrie. I thought that was so incredibly unsuccessful. Agreed.
<guthrie> It's because it forced us to actually let guys play their true position rather than that ridiculous "tackle over" formation they kept rolling out
<fishtaxi> agree Tom Brady doesnt even wear a headset
<bonesnjnts> have a great week all
<dave76> Aair is full of it half the time regarding what we'll see with the supposed West Coast offense. That or else Devin can't run it
<rgarg1> tom...borges feeling any heat?
<outcastinohio> Dizzo, as soon as I saw the formation I thought for sure it was a run to the right behind schofield and lewan. When they dropped back to pass I literally started screaming. You cannot expect Williams to block at DE one on one in pass pro.
<TomBeaver> rgarg - no
<kinmedic> thanks Tom. It was interesting to see aair write that
<TomBeaver> re Borges, no
<guthrie> i agree outcast. and that's the crap they stopped doing when Lewan got hurt
<snic2u> imo borges gets at least next year if not 2 more like brady
<guthrie> shockingly, they started protecting better. who woulda guessed
<kinmedic> Hopefully Al learns then and mixes it up
<rgarg1> tom..how does msu keep beating um
<dave76> Olaniyan looke good, huh?
<umjaker> Zettel too
<TomBeaver> I do think that, being behind, they passed more when Lewan was out, ran less ... but the new line did okay protecting Devin IIRC
<guthrie> although it's equally disappointing that two years after signing a guy at TE strictly for his blocking ability, he can't block a guy for even two seconds.
<kinmedic> they barely even went to Butt all game except that last pass in overtime when the defender had contact and in his face without looking back at the ball
<fishtaxi> rgarg better coaching plain and simple
<umjaker> he got in a scuff with lewan
<kinmedic> is that not a penalty or is that only in the nfl?
<dave76> If Hoke avoids 7-5 every year, he'll be here as long as he wants
<TomBeaver> I think Olaniyan was playing extra hard .. not that U-M didn't recruit him, they did
<guthrie> If not for kids from Michigan, PSU would have been screwed. Zettel, Olaniyan, Robinson. Tell me what PSU would have done without those three?
<umjaker> gotta beat osu, hoke can't go 0-4 against urban
<guthrie> well, he's 1-1 so far . so . . . .
<dave76> Not against Urban
<fishtaxi> Dot have you heard how blackmons visit to sate went ? or for that matter looneys??
<guthrie> ah. you're right. sorry
<snic2u> i hope the frosh wrs next year are ready for action
<TomBeaver> Zettel - another guy playing extra hard .. I think as a recruit he felt just a little disrespected by U-M, tho I do not think for good reason. U-M saw him at camp as an OL, so they saw him as an OL for longer than he wanted
<dave76> Why would Looney or Blackmon want to go to State? So they can average 8 points and 4 rebounds?
<guthrie> doubt that, snic. well, i th take that back. Caneteen will be ready, i bet. Harris just too skinny
<DOTMAN> Dude could have come to UM if he canted
<KyleBogie> RE: OSU. Right here, right now, I don't know how that game is close. OSU isn't GREAT but they'll be ready. Not sure what Michigan will be at that point.
<kinmedic> I don't think we will need all of them to paly. I like Chesson and getting Darboh back
<snic2u> I was hoping one as we will still have funchess
<dave76> C'mon guth, you can't count on those frosh to even get a sniff of the field from this staff
<outcastinohio> Speaking of Drake Harris is he ever going to play this year?
<guthrie> personally think we're in much better shape against OSU than we are MSU
<skuzzim> have there been any reports regarding ways hs performance this year
<guthrie> i really think Canteen will play
<TomBeaver> Canteen -- there'll be a place for a slot WR next year, potentially
<kn212003> I hope Drake Harris doesn't play this year, get that Hammy healed up for Michigan
<Hail2ThaVictors> If the coaches keep calling these lame plays and Devin continues to be a TO waiting to happen, Ohio will roll on us
<guthrie> he brings something none of our guys have
<Hail2ThaVictors> And Urb is not going to be nice about it
<umjaker> senior day, nothing to lose osu hasn't faced a hostile environment this season going in 23-0 they will be tight
<Hail2ThaVictors> Maybe that is the only thing that will wake folks up
<fishtaxi> outcast his dad told me a few weeks ago he might not play till playioffs
<hrod1203> Canteen will probably the perfect replacement for Gallon
<KyleBogie> Hail3ThaVictors. That's why I think Michigan will be in trouble in that one.
<Hail2ThaVictors> We may not have to wait that long because Moo U is definitely going to do everything in their power to win that game
<kinmedic> I think having Ryan back will help our defence. We can rush five now. PSUs WRs made huge plays more than our DBs were burned (except for the int going right through Taylor's hands)
<dave76> Dantonio will have that Sparty defense jacked up.......UM will struggle to score 10 points
<TomBeaver> Gallon is TOUGH ... so we don;t know that about Canteen until he gets out there with college players
<KyleBogie> umjaker. UM isn't that hostile of an environment.
<Hail2ThaVictors> Kyle, I do not understand why I do not get that same feeling off of our coaches. Even with all the mistakes, I felt guys played hard down the stretch. Some of Devin's runs were gutsy. Coaches got him behind the sticks IMO
<umjaker> more hostile then northwestern, lol
<TomBeaver> kinmedic - having Ryan back definitely helps ... and he was much readier to go Sat. than any of us coulda predicted
<KyleBogie> Just watched Canteen Saturday. He'll need to add weight but he is football fast. Really like hi m and he just gets open.
<kn212003> Jake looked like Jake to me
<hrod1203> I just mean Canteen seems to be similar to Gallon in that he's a great rout runner with good hands
<TomBeaver> My prediction: we get by Indiana Saturday, tho it won't be a cake walk ... but run into a buzz saw at EL
<rgarg1> kyle...does it matter....hoke.borges would rater run for 0 yards
<kinmedic> I agree Tom, I did not hink Jake would play that much. he looked good. Maybe a tad tentative but he'll come on strong
<TomBeaver> And Nov. aint' gonna be a cakewalk either
<KyleBogie> rgarg1. LOL.
<rgarg1> tom...thought um would beat msu this year
<Hail2ThaVictors> Indiana is going to open it up on us too
<hrod1203> If MSU rolls us it could get really ugly.
<DOTMAN> That aint going out on the limb much TJB
<TomBeaver> rgarg - only on first down
<Hail2ThaVictors> And make no mistake, those guys can put up points and no doubt would love to do it against us
<rgarg1> tom..where is the toughness hoke talks about
<fishtaxi> 7-5 and the wheels come off the recruting class bus
<Dizzo> Tom - I agree. I don't see us beating MSU right now. Just like when the Hoops team went to EL last year. They will be FIRED UP for that game... going to be tough to score points.
<kinmedic> This is a very tough November and if we can improve and come out of it on top, then this staff made a HUGE adjustment and maybe don't seem so inept
<TomBeaver> DOT - well it isn't where I wanted my head to be ... I wanted to feel pretty good about an improving team. Instead the OL is still unsettled, and the vibe is poor
<dave76> The OL ain't the only thing that's poor Tom
<fishtaxi> agree dave 76
<dave76> Has there been a unit on the team that has met or exceeded expectations?
<kinmedic> definitely not Dave
<snic2u> dave one question. Is there ANYTHING on the team you think is ok?
<umjaker> if we lose at msu say goodbye to B1G, a decade of not winning a B1G championship, when it has been the weakest conference in memory
<dave76> Do you?
<TomBeaver> It's rare for me to 'predict' a loss, extremely rare ... I just say nothing (as I did for Sat's game, lol)
<kinmedic> speacial teams are deinfitely not doing well
<hrod1203> CB's have been good IMO
<guthrie> buck up, campers. UM wins out. See you guys later.
<hrod1203> for the most part
<dave76> They've been OK
<KyleBogie> Ray Taylor and Blake Countess are clearly Michigan's best corners.
<snic2u> is there ANYTHING on the team you think is good?
<TomBeaver> dave76 ... I guess not. I'm not down on Devin like others, but he hasn't met expectations because of the ints
<snic2u> i thought it was a pretty self explainitory question
<dave76> Me? Not really, I guess I just expected more, that's all.
<dave76> I still root for them. I just see a ton of issues
<snic2u> so the whole team in your mind sucks lol
<kinmedic> I just think the coaches need to realize we're not a power running team, that game should have been a blow out. Devin spotted them a lead and our defense played well the second half (until the last drive)
<dave76> No, just hasn't been nearly as good as I and everyone thought
<BlueFan31> It isn't just power running that isn't working. We can't execute the inside zone or stretch play either.
<kinmedic> there were numerous questionable calls but we were in position to put this game away. We need to crush teams when we can
<TomBeaver> I thought the year'd be a year of close games, but that Devin'd be the diference ... I didn't forsee the continued int problems there
<kinmedic> I agree BlueFan but we need to put Devin in places ha can succeed
<fishtaxi> our d backs need to be coached to pass interfere as opposed to giving up a reception in those situation
<kinmedic> roll him out, give him option to audible or un it if nothing there
<TomBeaver> Stretch Play - GAWK!!!
<kinmedic> short passes to dileo or funchess
<snic2u> ya devin must have caught the turnover bug from denard. I never saw that part of this coming
<TomBeaver> Well guys, on mention of the Stretch Play, I'm gonna go throw up ... then cook dinner, LOL!
<BlueFan31> Kinmedic, Devin's first INT came when he was in the Pistol and a 3 WR set. He completely misread the defense.
<DOTMAN> yeah tom close games against good to great teams. Not against Uconn Akron and lost to PSU. at some point isnt it obvious what we are?
<kinmedic> if Gibbons makes one out of 5 kciks, we win and although we'd be angry still, we'd be undefeated
<TomBeaver> We'll feel better after a close W Saturday!
<hrod1203> The good news is the whole conference blows. Only OSU is much better than us IMO
<DOTMAN> Damn the expectations are bottomed out
<kinmedic> Sorry BlueFan - I missed the first couple of minutes as our cable company had switched chanels the game was on
<snic2u> thanks as always tom
<fishtaxi> agree dot
<snic2u> just hting tho....we could be like the haven this year lol
<KyleBogie> Ok everyone, I'm outta here too
<BlueFan31> I honestly can't blame Borges for the INTs. Devin should be better than that. Borges is however completely at fault for refusing to throw bubble screens when teams stack 8/9 in the box and leave our slot receiver wide open and uncovered.
<fishtaxi> in my best eric cartman voice later kyle
<kinmedic> I agree BlueFan
<KyleBogie> Have a good night! Thanks for dropping by.