Conversation with D'Amelio and Rank

Recently Broncos Illustrated sat down with Bob D'Amelio the Broncos Assistant Athletic Director of Marketing and Jeff Rank WMU's Director of Sports Marketing. Bob and Jeff talked about what the marketing department is working on to make the Bronco Experience even more fun for the fans. They talk about some of the plans that are in the works, new ticket pricing plans and a possible change to checking students entering Waldo Stadium on game day.

One of the popular topics here heading into the football season is obviously ticket sales. What is the university doing to promote the season ticket sales? Eventually you are going to start selling the season ticket sales, what are some of the things that are going to be going on this summer heading into the season and if there is any numbers on where the season ticket sales are at right now what would those be?

Bob: That would be a question you would have to ask Donnie (Don Beyer) because I'm not sure. We haven't had an update for a couple of weeks. So I'm not sure where they are. You know they've past their renewal deadline for past, last year's season ticket holders so I don't really have any numbers for you at this point. But, we sold a little less than five thousand last year, so this year a couple of things that we're doing. We've held the line on ticket pricing, number one. Number two the Virginia game will not be as was the Virginia Tech game last year, that will be priced the same as the other games. We're offering this year an introductory ticket plan called "The First Down Plan." So people that want to be introduced to season tickets can buy a season ticket for a reduced cost eighty-four dollars as opposed to one hundred eight dollars. That will be in selected areas of Waldo Stadium. Now for a current season ticket holder that wanted to move to save twenty-four dollars per ticket they could do that but we don't anticipate that's going to happen. We've hired a couple of WMU students as Marketing Interns and part of their responsibility through the summer will be to sell corporate tickets. So we already have them contacting numerous companies to solicit them for season ticket sales. So we anticipate that will increase our season ticket base, hopefully by a pretty good percentage. Obviously we have an attractive home schedule so we expect our season ticket sales to rise.

So, there's not going to be any scheduled events this summer to kind of help promote the ticket sales?

Bob: Well, we know from past history that trying to sell a season ticket in May is much more difficult than trying to sell one in August. So most of the concentration will happen at the end of the July period and beginning of August. Just because people are getting back from vacation and they're starting to think football and you guys are starting to right about football to a greater degree. In terms of what we will be able to do that's still kind of an unknown because we're in a situation where we don't know what our budget is going to be and that's going to impact what we can do. Our fiscal year starts July one and we know there are going to be cuts coming and it just depends on where those cuts fall. So we still have questions to be answered as far as that's concerned.

Jeff: Efforts will be made to get a lot of distribution and grass roots that aren't done. Meaning distribution of season ticket brochures, schedule cards we're going to begin that next week. We have those in. That will be the first distribution date throughout Kalamazoo and the surrounding areas. Really marketing that and that's, with the exception of the cost of printing those, is pretty inexpensive. Just time consuming getting those out. But that's one way we're going to be hitting the market. Also we're doing online, pushing online season ticket sales. We've got a current box on our website that says "Order Your Season Tickets" by clicking on the online through the Internet. We also come up kind of with a campaign slogan of called "Fight On, Fight On For Western." It's taking it off from the Fight Song and it's almost like the whole campaign for the whole, starting in football and throughout the year and generating spirit and getting fans excited about Bronco athletics. Incorporating the Fight Song that's the theory on that. The First Down Plan is obviously, what Bob has mentioned, to push season tickets and push people who are maybe teeter tottering and it's an inexpensive way to get started. You can sit in the endzone seats and we're offering those as well to people who have season tickets in endzones and it's eighty-four dollars compared to what's at one-o-eight, the regular season ticket price. So it's marked down a little bit for them. Events, we're still toying with some ideas to get exposed to the community and really with Bob mentioning the budget we are going to take the grass roots as I mentioned before. Relying also on the media, getting them involved. Coach's interviews, player's interviews, generating interest throughout the area of southwest Michigan. So that's in a nutshell what we're doing and obviously with our two marketing assistants/intern students on the phone currently selling, we're going to be pushing it hard. Also we'll put the sign up along Stadium Drive, just Bronco Football and get it out early and as gradually pushing it and really push as Bob said in July and August. We'll have a countdown clock on the website. We'll have a countdown out on the front of the Bill Brown Center.

Bob: Another area we're concentrating on, we've in the past our group rate only kicked in if you bought twenty or more tickets for a particular event. That's been reduced to ten, so we think that's going to be more attractive to a larger number of people even if it's a large family they'll be able to come to Bronco football games at a reduced rate.

Now do these groups, I understand the family part, do these groups need to be like a part of one organization?

Bob: No. You could be Joe Fan off the street and if you want to buy ten or more tickets to a Bronco football game we'll give you a seven-dollar discount on each ticket.

Looking at the football season first. Last year, despite the outcome of the Virginia Tech game and even in the other sports events it seemed like Blackout Saturday against Virginia Tech was quite a success for the university. Are any of the games, any of the home games this season being designated as Blackout Saturday?

Jeff: Yes. October twenty fifth versus Marshall will be Blackout Saturday. Volleyball will also be playing that night against Ball State.

Bob: And hockey versus MSU.

Jeff: Yeah that's tentative right now.

Bob: Yeah, right now it's on the schedule...

Jeff: …I don't know if we can release that totally yet. But that will be Blackout Saturday in the fall and then once again we will do it again in the winter. The theory behind that, we don't want to do Blackout Saturday every Saturday. Have one in the fall and one in the winter and we're not saturating it and making it a real big event.

Seems like fans are starting to wear black even if it's not Blackout Saturday.

Bob: That's kind of the mindset I think we're trying to create with Blackout Saturday. But Blackout Saturday has become that special day and we're trying to create that tradition that when people here Blackout Saturday they associate that with wearing black and getting more involved in the game.

What are some of the events that's going to be going on during the football season?

Bob: In what regard?

Well we've got the usual CommUniverCity Night, Southwest Fest, homecoming and stuff like that.

Jeff: Well this year obviously it's the Centennial Celebration of the university and September thirteenth when Virginia comes to town will be the day we'll honor that. We don't have any set detail plans yet of what we're doing around that game on Centennial. But that is also Southwest Fest. We also have Education Day that has been a tradition and then we're going to be doing a Youth Football Organization Day, youth team targeting teams eighth grade and under to bring their football teams out. That's going to be October twenty fifth. We are going to get them on the field, form a tunnel and have some fun. If the Seelye Center is available we'll get them through that and show them that. Expose them to Bronco football and a Division One football game. That will be that day.

Bob: November eighth we'll do our Salute to Veteran's Day. So, enlisted personnel and Veteran's will receive a discount. I think we'll once again do a themed halftime that revolves around the Armed Services.

Jeff: And of course Central Michigan will be rival, basically rival Saturday because volleyball also plays Central Michigan that day.

Senior Day too.

Jeff: Senior Day and Hall of Fame Day.

Last year we had Northern Illinois' band and I think it was Toledo's band came here. Are there any other bands in the MAC that are looking to be able to come up for their team for the game?

Bob: Actually we were at the Mid-American Conference marketing meetings and I know that Rick Chryst, the Commissioner, was really going to push for opposing team bands to travel with say a pep band type scenario. The band really is something that is organized through the band office. So both those contacts would go to Bill Pease for the request to perform at halftime and then they would have to allot time for the visiting team band to play and that cuts into their time and they're always open to doing that. It adds to the festivities. But, at this point we don't have any knowledge of who's going to be travelling.

Jeff: Sometimes you don't know that until a week or two before. They'll call up and say, "we're bringing our band."

Is there any word on whether or not the Broncos Marching Band is going to be going to Michigan State?

Bob: They are going to Michigan State. Yeah, they will travel to Michigan State.

You were talking about the youth football teams possibly going into the Seelye Center. Is there any possibility that the Seelye Center's going to be giving tours this year for local community fans or people that come out to the football games?

Jeff: That option I think is being explored. But right now it's considered a construction site so it's closed. But there is, right now I think plans are being put in place to have a ceremony dedication sometime during the football season and maybe, possibly open up a door and have fans peek in. But there are no set plans if we're going to do tours or not, but it is in discussion.

Bob: I think we certainly want to do something like that, but as Jeff said the only operational area currently is the turf bay and the office area. The rest of it is still, as Jeff said a construction zone. So, we haven't been able to finalize anything like that but certainly we have our druthers. We certainly want to showcase that to our fans.

I know this is kind of looking a little bit ahead with this past school year just ending and not yet in the budget year. With the other sports, basketball, men's and women's basketball and hockey, what if any plans are in the making for events in their seasons?

Jeff: You mean like promotions, game promotions?


Jeff: Well, there's discussion right now with Coach Stewart on women's basketball and having a ceremony to recognize last season's team. But that's just being discussed right now, nothing's set on that date. There definitely will be a Blackout Saturday. There will be a, and this is basketball, Purdue comes to town on December thirtieth for women's basketball which definitely will be a big event here, they're a top twenty team or top ten team year in and year out. We are going to make that a special night. On men's basketball I haven't sat down with Coach Hawkins yet and looked at possibilities of what dates, who's on the schedule and what we can plan around. Definitely what we want to do is bring in, if budget we can do it is bring in some really good entertainment. Like we had last year with Quick Change and always have something going on at halftime for fans to enjoy aside from our normal contests like the Meijer Shootout. We want to bring in some maybe youth teams to play basketball like we did towards the end of the season last year. Maybe explore again doing a mascot day. But basketball hasn't really been set and what were some promotional dates. Volleyball, we have really looked at some good days and really gearing towards the opening weekend of September twelfth and September nineteenth which is the Radisson and WMU Invitational. The September nineteenth we are going to make it a field trip day for schools to come out in the afternoon because that's a twelve o'clock game. That will be, we can send out a letter to the teachers and make it more of an educational trip when they come to a volleyball game and learn about the college volleyball and attend a game in an afternoon. September nineteenth through the twentieth, or September twelfth through the thirteenth we're going to turn it into a volleyball extravaganza and that will coincide as well around the football game at Centennial Celebration. Really making it a big event of opening up the volleyball season of possibly face painters, possibly some other activities going on. This year to encourage fans to come from football to volleyball games you get in free with the football ticket to the volleyball games. We're going to do a volleyball tailgate called "Volley Tailgate" and have a tent out here and make it an atmosphere. We'll have food for sale, have bands or live entertainment of some sort. Hockey we have, once again I haven't had a chance yet to sit down with Coach Culhane to look at the schedule, I've looked at the schedule tentatively. Once again we did Turkey Bowl last year, may do that again if there's a Thanksgiving which I believe we do have some Thanksgiving games. Blackout Saturday, a food drive and looking at doing some possible different promotions in the game to get the students involved and get the fans involved.

Bob: Another thing that we haven't finalized yet is we're trying to get a, I guess what you would call a ride-along or a jump seat for the Zamboni. We are going to offer Zamboni rides between periods at the hockey games but we haven't finalized how people are going to sign up to ride for that and so forth.

Would that be for the students or would everybody to be able to sign up for that?

Bob: I guess we are going to do some research on that because there are some liability issues and basically we are going to speak with some schools to see what their experience has been as far as how they've allowed people to ride on those. Obviously, you have a very small child that could be a dangerous situation or if you have someone a little more on the frail side. Elderly you just really have to a little careful as to, for the most part it's going to be safe but you want to be cautious as well. It could very well turn into a kid's thing or it could be a student thing. I would think, certainly it would be very popular with the students.

This past season you had the women's basketball team and women's softball team win MAC Championships in tournament play. The banners that come from those championships do they just get put up or is there a banner raising ceremony?

Jeff: Well that first game, women's basketball game we may do a banner raising. But we have to get with a few other administrators within the department and really discuss that and figure out. But that's a pretty good possibility where we'll do some kind of ceremony and that would involve the banner being rose or raised up. That will be one of the first home, regular season basketball games for women's basketball. Softball there hasn't been any discussion on what will be done out of them if we'll put something on the fence or we'll put something on the scoreboard. Once again, we don't make those decisions but between a collaborative effort between other administrators we could put something together and of course what the coach would like. They're the one's that got them there.

I was thinking about that. Because I think that if you, at the first regulars season home game, you have a banner raising ceremony where you dim the lights, maybe put a spot light on the banner play the Alumni Song while the banner is raising that would be something. That would be special and everybody would remember.

Bob: Sure and we've done that in the past and I wouldn't think that this would be any different for this year. There certainly would be some recognition. We haven't had a lot of them recently and so I'm sure we're going to pound our chest as much as we can.

Jeff: Something else we didn't talk about. I know the marketing is WMU students and that we're putting a concentrated effort on getting them out to more games. In particular, here in the arena at Read Fieldhouse, we get good number at hockey, good numbers at football, really want to put an effort for those students to come out here to the basketball, volleyball and other events that are held here. We are going to go back to getting our coaches out in the resident halls. We are also going to be working with off campus apartment complexes to get information distributed out to those students that once they leave the main campus we kind of lose contact with them with the exception of using the Western Herald. We also are creating some different in game promotions for students. We have a pretty good little kid promotion. We have some other adult promotions. We have a "Best Seat in the House" which is geared towards students. Students can still do the Meijer shootout, but something that the students can get involved with at the game as well. We're exploring some options how to administer registration when they come to the game. Get them involved. We really want to push the BackCourt. Push some other activities are volleyball, like baseball has the K's when we have kills in volleyball we want to get those going up on top level on the fence or the railing up there. So, you will notice, I think you will notice a concentrated effort on reaching WMU students across the board with our coaches and they're all for it. I've spoken with a few of them already and they're on board and ready to, because that is a valuable market there that they really add to the atmosphere of the games.

Talking about students. Waldo Stadium, third quarter of football games, most of the time there…I notice in basketball you got the BackCourt, you've got a strong contingent that stay. You want them to grow but there's conflict between space for the band and space for the students. Well, Waldo Stadium there's all this space. What is trying to be done to be able to help create student interest to remain inside Waldo Stadium after the halftime?

Jeff: Last year we gave out scholarships at football in one of the games. This year, we, well there's a good possibility, I've got to check and see if it's been finalized but doing a scholarship every single game. But it would be reduced to two five hundred-dollar scholarships towards students. Now the details of that, if it's we're going to have them doing the most spirited again or register as they come in, it will not be announced until the second half, third or fourth quarter who had won. Other than that, that's one additional plan we're trying to get them to stick around for that aspect of it. But that's about it right now.

Bob: You know, it's just it's a difficult thing. We aren't the only school that faces that problem. I mean we already had this discussion again in Cleveland amongst the other conference schools and they all face that same problem. You know if it's a Virginia Tech game, a Virginia game, and a Central Michigan game you don't have to worry about it. But if it's a November game and you're playing Kent State or it's an early season game against, I don't know, William & Mary for instance, CommUniverCity night it's a difficult task. As Jeff said, the money incentive is going to help a little bit but I don't think anybody really has the answers to that question.

Jeff: Honestly it's an issue that's across the country. Not only in the MAC but it's an issue across, they have troubles up at State, they had, I know they did. Students at many games I've sat and seen students not there. It's an issue of why students are sometimes a low attendance at games across the country. We're going to conference in about two or three weeks and we'll see what some other discussions with the schools and see what they're doing to address that and try and keep them around. There's going to be some new things going on in the football stadium this year in regards to upgrades on the scoreboard and auxiliary board. That will be more entertainment towards the fans.

All the parts will be in before July? How long is it going to take to erect the scoreboard?

Jeff: Well they will be able to get it done. I mean we may be going into the midnight hour, but they'll get it done.

Bob: Problem is we don't know what capabilities we ‘re going to have early on because it's a huge learning curve. You're talking about an installation like this, we hope to do everything we can with that.

Jeff: It will be fun.

Bob: Yeah. Fans are certainly going to, they're going to love it.

Jeff: And I say, that entertaining fans, but that's an opportunity that we can create a promotion on the board that is geared towards students. Where they have to stick around to the fourth quarter to see something.

CommUniverCity Night, look at the first game. When do you guys start selling the space for "Tent City" and if you've already done it, is it sold out or what's going on with CommUniverCity?

Bob: You know, that really has gotten to be such a huge event that Irene Bracken basically sends out renewal letters in the late winter and starts getting commitments at that point in time. So, by April she pretty much has it sold out. There's very little movement from year to year of people pulling out of CommUniverCity Night. So, it's one thing where it pretty much takes care of itself from year to year. The nice thing is that Southwest Fest has grown because, partly because of people not being able to participate in CommUniverCity they've bumped into that second event. Fortunately for us that's become, CommUniverCity has become a household name in Kalamazoo and that is the night.

You talked about tradition earlier. It seems to me that is one of the biggest traditions, not only within the university, but also within the city and county of Kalamazoo in itself.

Bob: Sure. Yeah. You know that's kind of nice because we don't have a whole lot of things like that. But hopefully those things will, other events will grow. Blackout Saturday that hopefully is going to become, I think that has started to become a tradition. Of course you need some success along the way too.

Winning kind of helps.

Bob: It helps us a lot, yeah.

Overall, I know this is early but an overall assessment for the two thousand three – two thousand four athletic season for all the teams? I realize the budget is not set yet but what would the overall view of the situation within your department be for promoting Bronco Athletics?

Jeff: Well definitely our number one goal we want to always increase attendance at events and that goes along the lines of having a great atmosphere when fans come to a game. From the time they arrive at the arena or stadium we've got smiling ticket takers, we've got our promotions are running crisp, at least they appear to run crisp and clean. But behind the scenes, just to make it an enjoyable event for fans to come to in a game and then just to really get our their in the community and make/create good awareness of Bronco Athletics. That has been done hugely in the last ten years and we need to continue that momentum and even build it more so we are developing a good fan base of Bronco fans. There is a, I know it traveling around, there is a good solid group of diehard Bronco fans and there is a lot of loyalty to Western Michigan University in the alumnus. There are a lot, I noticed it, that don't really have any interest in other teams, they care about their Broncos. You see it at Cleveland when they travel. When they come to football games. When they come to basketball games. I mean they got the Bronco gear on. They're talking about it on the website (Broncos Illustrated). We want to build that and continue to get that going throughout southwest Michigan and in the state of Michigan as a whole. We're in a unique situation, I said this when I first got here two and a half years ago or two years ago that we are one of the only things west of (Interstate) Sixty Nine and the whole west side of Michigan. Grand Rapids south and this corner we have this whole market here and I think if we can capture a lot of that it'll be huge. Because it would be, I think the goal would continue to build fan bases and loyalties so that from age five on up, or age whatever from the time they're born. I think that's the goal of any university at athletic events. But creating a good fun environment and atmosphere when they come to a game and making sure it's a good experience.

Bob: And getting exposure, that's key. You talked about television, Marshall, certainly their fan base has grown as they've had more exposure on national television. Hopefully we will get a little more national TV exposure. That certainly helps us. But as Jeff said, we will do everything on our end, if we don't have the budget, from a grass roots nature to get things done. The other thing we talked about in looking at was also having a response form for fans in our stadiums and arenas where they basically can speak back to us and say "here's what I liked, here's what I didn't like, here's what I had a problem with." Customer service is a huge issue for us and if somebody's not satisfied the first time they come to a game they may not come back. We need to make sure that we're doing everything that we can to take care of our loyal fans.

With you just saying that. In that aspect how has Broncos Illustrated been able to help the marketing department?

Jeff: I think from your message board to your stories that you put on it throughout the year, it's creating interesting and continuing talk about Bronco Athletics that sometimes we are unable to accomplish because of our other duties inside the Athletic Department. I think some of your player interviews that you do, the coaches interviews, the "Where Are They Now?" I don't know if you've done that, but I'm using it in that line. But, I know your players or you check on some of your recruiting and it just continually allows people to talk about Bronco Athletics and it's not something they can from April ‘til August they just put away. It allows for people to continually know what's going on and that enables us to get the word out. I think you guys do a pretty solid job of not digging up dirt or negative things about what things do happen. But I think that was one of Bryan's goals or what when he came to us not to long ago to talk about. He wasn't going to dig up the dirt or the, you know what I'm saying and that's been positive. I know on the chat lines there's always some opinions, but that's sports. As long as they're talking about it, anytime people are talking about it.

Like Bob was saying, putting out these feedback forms it's also a great way to get that feedback without actually having forms because there's over four hundred different opinions on the boards currently right now.

Bob: As far as the feedback's the goal of this would be to basically, a lot of people aren't willing to, if they come to the game and have a problem. They aren't willing to usually approach an administrator and say "hey look, I had a problem getting a hot dog.' "I had to stand in line for twenty minutes to get something." Concessions, that's just a, I'm not saying that's a problem, that just might be one issue that we might not know about it. Unless we know about it we can't react to it. So, that would be the goal, basically is to find out what we're doing well and where we can improve. Did you have a problem finding a parking space? Is there something that we can do to get you information about parking in a better way at basketball. We know parking is a problem for basketball. Not a whole lot we can do about it. We instituted a shuttle for instance and that has helped us for an extent. But, I'm sure there are other issues out there that we're not aware of that we need to know about.

I know you guys must have heard, because I definitely heard of it, about one of the fans on Broncos Illustrated was talking about missing the first eleven minutes of a basketball game because of getting a ticket for the game.

Bob: I don't know particularly about that. I know we have had issues where if we have a huge walk up it's a crunch and we've talked about what we can do about that because we can't change people over night to buy their tickets in advance. So we do have to react to that. Yeah, we do. We see situations like that. They're certainly in that discussion and we do everything that we can.

Jeff: That issue was also, I remember when that occurred, and yeah it was addressed by our ticket office and made more windows available. We also did cash only and tickets pre-printed tickets to accommodate. Then there's also responsibilities on both parties I guess, the say. Our teams are starting to win. Our basketball their twenty win seasons. We are going to draw larger crowds and it's a good thing that you can no longer walk up five minutes before a game and buy a ticket without standing in line, in some sort of line. I don't know any sport out there that you can do that at a game if a team is really starting to get momentum. I'm not putting the blame on that guy, or whoever, but there's got to be a little bit of "okay, I can no longer do this. That luxury is not here anymore." That same luxury back at any, I will use Kansas State. They use to stink at football. You probably could walk up two minuets before a game in the Eighties now you can't. They get sixty thousand fans at a game and they're winning. I think our fans will, some of them, will have to "lets understand that alright, we got to leave a little earlier" and get there and know that, or purchase season tickets.

Bob: What's really interesting though is part of problem is once you offer certain conveniences to fans it also kind of works against you. What's happened in basketball for instance is a lot of people now pull out their Visa or MasterCard, it takes longer to process that kind of transaction. So past year's where people were pulling a twenty dollar bill out of there pocket, you know they are now pulling out a piece of plastic. That has to be run through and then they got to wait for the authorization, have them sign off so that transaction takes longer today than it did five or six years ago.

Jeff: When I say responsibility of the two parties, I'm meaning that. Hey if they are going to take the time to purchase a ticket in advance or come in early, which we have addressed, we got to be able to sell them a ticket and accommodate them conveniently.

Bob: React.

Jeff: React. Yeah, exactly, so I don't want to put all the blame on a "they should get here an hour before." I'm just saying, "yeah, they need to get here, probably early or purchase tickets in advance and we need to accommodate them which we are.

Last season, when Virginia Tech came to town there was like two or three days where the students had to pick up their tickets on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday prior to the game. Is that going to be instituted for games such as the Virginia game this season or any other game? How did that work out for the university?

Bob: We really haven't had that discussion yet and it's kind of a catch 22. I think from our perspective what we try to accomplish with having students pick up a ticket for the Virginia Tech game primarily was that if you are a current student you were going to get a ticket to the game. There are still a lot of alumns walking around Kalamazoo that have their Bronco card and it's no secret that at home games if you have a Bronco card you can show it at the door and you're going to get admitted. We have no way of stopping that because we don't routinely check whether they are currently enrolled. So, primarily we were protecting current WMU students so that they could get a ticket; they were assured a ticket for the Virginia Tech game if they wanted one. I think the people that were upset with it are the people that had graduated, still had their Bronco card, thought they were going to walk in, get a ticket to the game and instead had to buy a ticket. To us that's only fair to the current students that are paying free, that they get a ticket to the game. So philosophically that's where we are at for that game. We knew it was going to be a big draw. On the other hand, yeah, it's an inconvenience for the students, it's more work for our staff but then again we did it for the right reasons.

But did you see that as a success last year?

Bob: From the student's standpoint? Oh, huge. Yeah, we really didn't hear many complaints. We were serving them cokes as they came in, Coach Darnell made an appearance while they were standing in line, we received coverage from all the local media, it was on the front page of the Kalamazoo Gazette, it was on Channel 3, it was on Channel 41. So, it became an event in itself. There were negatives. I know of one former student in particular that wrote a letter to the editor, the reason he was upset was because he had to buy a ticket and he didn't justifiably have the right to get a free ticket because he's no longer a student, that's the bottom line. The other thing we're looking at is actually having scanners available at the stadium so that we can verify student's enrollment, which would be an option to not having to pick up a ticket in advance. One other thing that I wanted to tell you that we're doing this year that I've forgotten about is we're going to, and this goes back to the customer service type thing is we're going to have chair backs available for rent at Waldo Stadium this year. For four dollars you can come in and get a nice cushioned chair back seat to rent on game day. It's, again, just another service we're going to provide for our fans.

Four dollars on top the regular ticket price?

Bob: Yeah, I mean it's optional. When you come in, if you want to rather than sitting on the aluminum bench, you want a cushion seat you happen to have a chance to rent that for the game.

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