Imagine a Notre Dame Prep from Phx landing in Kingkman. NDP still makes a great product and is super competitive in the upper divisions in the Valley. Imagine that landing in Kingman with one, now two public high schools. Kingman High was a power for a while, but the 'private' charter school starts to win awards from charter school levels. Charter school levels. Still fun. Still competitive..doesn't even come close to the level of competition and recognition that comes to Kingman HS. Come to so and so charter to win big, plastic trophies..quit going to Kingman HS where you have the opportunity to win REAL trophies. Add in the other new public high school and, well, you have a recipe for a division V competitor and two ghost town schools up near the river.
Tremaine50 wrote: Imagine a Notre Dame Prep from Phx landing in Kingkman. NDP still makes a great product and is super competitive in the upper divisions in the Valley. Imagine that landing in Kingman with one, now two public high schools. Kingman High was a power for a while, but the 'private' charter school starts to win awards from charter school levels. Charter school levels. Still fun. Still competitive..doesn't even come close to the level of competition and recognition that comes to Kingman HS. Come to so and so charter to win big, plastic trophies..quit going to Kingman HS where you have the opportunity to win REAL trophies. Add in the other new public high school and, well, you have a recipe for a division V competitor and two ghost town schools up near the river.
So you're saying all the plastic participation trophies kids get these days aren't "real" trophies
"You've got to remember, that these are just simple farmers, these are people of the land, the common clay of the new west. You know . . . morons."
At some point, the state's charter league will need to recieve its due in this forum and others. Every team that has moved into the AIA from the CAA has maintained its level of performance.
1) Arizona Charter Academy simialr record in CAA 2A 2011 to AIA D6 2012 (sub .500) 2) SPA competed for championships in CAA (lost in finals last year in league), immediately competitive in AIA 3) Mesa Prep lost in the finals 2 years ago, playoffs in year 1 in AIA
I am probably missing some other examples, but to imply that the CAA offers "plastic trophies" because of inferior competition is misguided and incorrect. Having coached 8 man ball in both leagues, the top teams in the CAA would be more than competitive against the AIA playoff teams. Yes there are some bad teams, but nothing worse than some of struggling programs currently at the bottom of D6.
All that being said, there do not exist any data points (of which I am aware) of a CAA school jumping straight into D5 (this was the first year of 11 man ball in the CAA). Will be interesting to see how that works out for them.
I have no problem agreeing with the fact that charter schools could step in and compete with the smallest division in the AIA. What I am arguing is the fact that an 8th grade kid AND his parents would decide that going to a tiny charter school that wins games against tiny opponents is a better choice than enrolling at a Division 1 (largest competitive classification in the state) high school. If you are good, go and compete against the best the state has to offer. If you want ANY chance at a collegiate career, go to Kingman HS. Any data on how many charter athletes play at the next level? I just spoke with some folks from KHS unhappy that talent is being diverted away from the big schools in the city and pipelined into the little charters with the reasoning that they will have more "success". Sorry, but coming down to the Valley and beating Mesa Westwood in basketball is, in my mind, much more of a success than beating Laughlin Charter Academy or some other 90 student school. Just an opinion.
Your view here is very short sighted and only works if you think that a scholarship to a top Div 1 college is the only "collegiate career" out there.... There are lots of kids year after year that play at smaller high schoools around the state who get scholarship offers to colleges all across the country.
The smaller school also gives an athlete a chance to participate in more then one sport if they choose to. Most kids at the Div 1 schools in AZ have to pick one sport and focus just on it just to make the team. Being a multiple sport athlete just expands their opportunities/exposure to college athletic opportunities (if they are good enough).
Also get the feeling that you are down playing the level of coaching that takes place at many of the top small school programs around the state. Just because you are at a bigger HS doesn't make you a better or more knoweledgeable coach. There are a ton of extremely good/knoweledgable coaches (many former professional's) at the smaller school levels.
Hey Jimmer, while I don't know you, don't begin to think you know me. If we are talking Division 1 in the college ranks, I believe there are about as many total D1 recruits in AZ as there are recruits at any college level for Division 4, 5 and 6 athletes total from AZ. So out of three divisions, I expect you are talking about a dozen or so kids that go and play D3 or NAIA or community college ball (which doesn't really count as it only offers an AA at best and last only 2 years, 3 if you redshirt, but who redshirts at a community college?). What you are speaking of is the sales pitch rural charter schools give to good athletes to assure there is talent on the squad. I just think it would be a better service to a kid to tell him he has the ability to play against the big boys and when he excels in that avenue, he may have more opportunities. Either way, he will still have the small college options that you speak of, but what is going to help him more? Beating up on the weak sisters of the poor, or battling Centennial and Westwood and seeing what is out there so as to better prepare himself for the competition at the next level. In case you haven't noticed, the small colleges and community colleges are full of lesser players from the Westviews and Red Mountains and Hamiltons of the AZ landscape. I just think it is a travesty to sell a kid on beating up on tiny AZ schools when he actually has the ability to compete against the best in the state, and in multiple sports. And I won't argue the point that there are some fine coaches at the smaller levels, however, most don't stick around. Vaughan at Wickenburg (now battling for state titles at Mt. Pointe) and Moore out of Morenci (State runner up at Mesa HS a few years back) are testament to the fact great coaches may start out at small venues, but they end up at big venues. Outside of Moro at Ridge and perhaps Tenney at Mogollon (if he is still there), great coaches use the lower levels as stepping stones for the most part. Could a lot of small school coaches do well at bigger schools? Absolutely. Can coaches who aren't very good survive at big schools for more than a few years? Don't count on it. I am a product of small schools and a participant in big schools. I love both, but I believe I understand quite well the differences between the two.
Got to somewhat agree with Termaine here. Johnny Herrero from Kingman academy just signed with NAU. I watched that kid closely at a camp in Phoenix and if he were playing bigger division ball at a Kingman public school in D1 he would have been a BCS scholarship lineman. It did him no good he was playing against those charter school kids, I watched his film and it was a worthless experience to play against that level of play for him. He should have been at a bigger AIA school.
To me the only difference between the large school and the small school is a matter of Quantity not quality. Great athletes come from all sizes of schools, there are just more students at the bigger schools, therefore more great athletes come out of these schools. Same goes for coaches. There are quality coaches at all levels, just more of them at the bigger schools. All that said, for my kids I am a fan of a small school environment, and if I had the choice, and lived in Kingman, the size of the school and the environment on campus would be one of the most important aspects with regard to where I chose to send my kids. Sports would fall below environment and education for me.