Hypothetically, what is a reasonable offer from a DII school for a HS pitcher? Do most DII kids play for very little scholarship $$? Any advice on the signing process as far as signing before senior season or after? Just needing some quick insight and any help would be appreciated.
D2 can offer any amount. They can offer nothing, or 5% or 10% or 90%. It's not like D1 where they have to offer a minimum of 25%. D2's have a total of 9 scholarships to offer unlike D1's 11.7. Those 9 scholarships are spread among anywhere between around 28 and 35 players. So you can see, I'm sure there are very few, if any full scholarships. I'm not sure what is considered good, but my son got 50% from a very good D2 baseball school and we thought it was a very good offer. I really don't know what other's received, so I can't put it in perspective but thought the number he got was very generous considering the numbers the school has to work with. He is also a pitcher.
The early signing period for D1 or D2 starts November 7th and goes for a week or two. That is when you can actually sign your National Letter of Intent or NLI. Prior to that, if you get an offer from a school, you can verbally commit. This is basically giving your word that you will sign with that school. I found that the schools my son got offers from wanted a decision by early signing time. This is so they know where their recruiting stands. I think for D1 or D2 they will offer their top choices and try to get them to commit and sign by the early signing period. If they don't fill their roster by then, they will start going after the other guys they like but didn't offer to fill their roster up. So, my opinion is, if you get an offer you are happy with from a school you like and really want to go with, sign in November. If you think there is something else out there you may like better, you can hold out and try to get on with them for the late signing period, which is April. Keep in mind, most of the time you do this, you are the schools 2nd or 3rd choice. It is usually better to go where they really want you. I think it will give you a better chance of actually playing.
Another thing to keep in mind is not all schools fully fund the nine scholarships the NCAA says they can award. It's up to each athletic dept to determine how many of those nine to fund. My son played DII and also pitched. I believe most coaches spend the majority of their available scholarship money on starting pitching and defense up the middle -- catcher, SS, 2B and CF. If a coach is recruiting a pitcher and projects him to be an eventual conference starter, the coach will most likely make a larger offer. If he projects the pitcher to be a bullpen guy, the offer, if any, will likely be lower. Also, an offer may be affected by whether or not the recruit is eligible for HOPE. A lot of times coaches will offer HOPE-eligible players a little less because their "need" is not as great. This allows them to save some money and make it available to good prospects who are not HOPE-eligible.
Most of the better schools will try to get the majority of their recruiting out of the way during the early signing period. Also, most coaches are targeting several guys for a limited number of slots. So, if you wait to commit or sign, you might find yourself on the outside looking in. My son was being recruited by a school during early signing period. He was working with an assistant coach to arrange a visit when the phone calls stopped. Later, he learned that two other LH'ers (higher priorities) the school was recruiting signed, filling the team's needs. That's the way it goes. You never know exactly what the situation is.
That helps alot. We have been offered, but a very insignificant amount IMO. Just a drop in the bucket really, but early signing is what they want us to do. I guess my question is, do we counter offer, or decline and keep on showcasing and such? BTW, really like the school, proximity to home is REALLY good, like the facilities, just thought the offer was weak. Like I'm sure most parents in this situation, want to make an educated decision.
Good points beisbolfan. If a player can get HOPE, schools will often offer less baseball. If a player can get good academic money, they will lower the baseball money. It really is a matter of juggling a little money between a lot of players.
It's a tough call McJacket. The numbers show that only 5.6% of HS seniors wind up playing for an NCAA school. If you wait, there may not be a slot open for the player at any of the schools you are looking at. However, I have heard of players signing during their Senior year or even during the summer after Senior year. What you will be looking at is hoping someone from the schools you are interested in decides not to go to that school and they open up that slot to you. Or some of the big D1's will have guys get drafted in the June draft. Maybe even D2 guys or JUCO guys. That will open up slots late. Are you willing to take the chance? That is the big question.
Guys, I really appreciate it, and anyone else, please keep it coming. This is difficult, but the offer feels like a walk on deal, even though it is a scholarship. The coach indicated that he was trying to sign mostly HS players that he could develope over 4 years, and he was trying to sign them in Nov. That totally makes sense to me. I feel mine is really just coming on physically, and expect him to have a strong senior season, but we play in SWGA, which is NOT prime territory for scouts during the regular season. This feels a lot like gambling, which it what showcases feel like also, so I guess I should be getting used to it. Please feel free to express any others opinions, no matter what they are. Thx.
It is a very difficult situation. The relatively low offer tells me the coach thinks enough about his ability that he would like him in the program, and he is willing to invest a little to see if he develops. However, he does not view him as a top recruit who has a high probability of developing into a conference starter at some point in the future or a major bullpen contributor. In such a case, he probably will wait a year or two to see what happens. From his perspective, if things don't work out, he's not out much. If he does develop beyond the coach's expectations, the coach hits the jackpot, so to speak. At that point, he will probably up his offer, since it goes from year to year. If not, the player has the option of staying or transferring.
The problem here is if you decline the offer, things might not work out like you hope, and you might be left with no offer at all. Certainly, the situation would be easier if there were more options. Unfortunately, it is a gamble. Sometimes, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Good luck.
Been there done that. Bottom line, it depends on how the player is treated/coached. If low offer indicates a lack of expectations, that will translate into a lack of attention (ie coaching), run like hell.
No amount of money will make up for a bad situation. to quote Tom House, "never assume the higher you go, the better the coaching."
Never take what the coach says at face value. VERIFY!
My son had offers to a D2 school and he was intent on taking the offer. He was being offered a very good academic scholarship in addition, yet at the last moment he was made a offer at an NAIA school that bested the D2 offer. Of course, I do not know your situation but I have seen kids decide to play less than D2 and had great careers on the college level. ( High School Coach for 30 years ) In general some D1 schools have zero players on full scholarships. In fact most are like that. Best of luck to your son.
Man, I really appreciate everybody's insight and advice. I have absolutely ZERO idea what to do. I'm gonna go with my gut, which told me 100% "no", when the offer was made. I really expected a better offer, although I was in no way expecting any kind of full ride. I did understand most offers were financially limited, just not quite this small.
It also does not hurt to haggle with the coach. One thing for sure you will find out if the coach is really interested or just trying to fill a spot. We were promised more money the second year and had to press a little to get it. This did not hurt playing time and might have gained a little more respect. Sometimes your first year you have a higher opinion of the coach than you should from a money stand point. For him it is a buisness and if he can get you cheap then he has more to spend on someone else.
If you go this route and nothing else materializes, and come next spring he's still interested in playing, then he can walk on at this school or somewhere else. You've already said the "offer" wasn't much, so you really wouldn't be out much going the walk-on route. And if he does well, then the coach will reward him with an offer that was better than what you have now. Who knows, it may even be good enough to make up financially for the walk-on year.
Go with the college that provides the best education. It does not matter, in the end, where a kid played or what division his college was in. You may be surprised at the academic money and work-study opportunities available at the smaller colleges. That idea has seemed to work out well for my son. Best of luck.
If he is just coming into his own I would highly recommend going JUCO, probably starting from Day 1 and then having many more offers in 2 years. If he is succesful at the JUCO level it means a lot more than being succesful at the HS level where the competition is so much more varied. Its not always right but as someone else said, the money isn't as much about the money itself in a lot of cases (there are plenty of other schloarships if he has the grades) but more so in the number of chances he is realistically going to get to play(i.e. the kid witht the half scholarship is going to get tons of chances even if he can't get anybody out, where-as the recruited walk on basically better not have one bad outing). Not always the case but a lot of coaches don't want to look like they made a mistake with evaluating a player. Sitting for 2 years behind guys you believe you are better than is tough and the reason a lot of kids quit. I HIGHLY recommend looking into some juco's(inbox me if you want and I can give you some contact info for your area). From personal expierience playing all the time for an ok team is a lot more fun than pitching 12 innings a year for a great team but thats a personal choice. Best of luck, Brian
"If you want to get good at something really fast you need a montage"
We work with kids all of the time in the recruiting process. First and foremost, choose the school that is right for you...another words lets say come next November and there is an injury and he cannot play any more, would he want to be at that school with OUT baseball. This is where the academics, the environment of the school come into play. IF the answer is no then it probably is not a good fit. IF you are deciding about the offer,, there are several questions you can and SHOULD ask the coach. This is and should be a win-win for both parties, the player and the coach. The advice that was given in the above posts are pretty much spot on.. A coach is not going to offer as much baseball monies to a player that is HOPE eligible.. this is not a negative. This is a benefit for the coach and the player is a bit more attractive for the coach's situation. Again, its not a negative.
My son has received a 3000.00 offer from a NAIA school, I was wondering if this is a good offer. This is my first offer and he likes the school. We are also getting Academic money. I enjoyed reading all the posts and looking forward to a response. Should I try for additional money?