depley:: hey bill
BaseballGM2k2:: bill welcome
striker42:: I see
depley:: was it suppoesd to be 1 pm central time?
BillShanks:: Hello folks. Please forgive me for being late. I have been sick this morning. I truly apologize. But I'm here now.
BillShanks:: Let's talk Braves' Baseball.
BaseballGM2k2:: hey Bill it's only 12:15 here
tigger101023:: that sucks. Hope you're feeling better
emk418:: no problem......feel better
bellbell:: why remlinger last night??
BillShanks:: Well not completely, but I'm okay. Thanks.
Betemit7:: Cause Bobby is an idiot
BillShanks:: Cause they don't have anybody. That's what not having a closer is all about. It forces people into roles they shouldn't be in.
tigger101023:: well, I'm not sure what more Ray has to do
BillShanks:: Let's first talk a bit about Dayton Moore and the front office if we can. Then we'll get into the bullpen and how this team looks at the one-third point.
emk418:: so you think this will greatly affect us
tigger101023:: is BRAVEDAD right? Will Clark follow Moore?
depley:: does Dayton's leaving hae anything to do with Lberty taking over? is there major concern we are not aaware of?
bellbell:: do you see dayton coming back here in 5 yrs?
Betemit7:: Does J.J. have a chance to take over in Dayton's spot?
BillShanks:: The loss of Dayton Moore is significant. It's heartbreaking to me that he might not be our GM. Sure, we can all hold out hope that when JS leaves Dayton will still be a candidate and could come back. But it's not as likely, of course, as if him being here waiting in the wings. Schuerholz is getting ready to sign an extension to remain the GM through at least 2008. So Dayton really had no choice but to go ahead and take the KC job.
depley:: I don't fault Dayton for wanting a change to use his talents
bellbell:: if i was him i wouldn't have waited either
tigger101023:: I just hope he has the autonomy he asked for. The KC media doesn't sound as optimistic that he'll actually get it
striker42:: I really don't know how long Dayton will be GM there. IF he does a good job bigger teams with deeper pockets and a better situation will com calling. It will be hard to resist.
clvclv:: Gotta leave the window open...need to read the transcript when I get a sec...did I miss anything?
BaseballGM2k2:: for Dayton's sake...I hope this is a 10-15 yr gig
BillShanks:: I think it's a strong possibility that Roy Clark could follow Moore to KC eventually.
BaseballGM2k2:: if not longer
BillShanks:: YES clv from the time I just kicked in here.
depley:: what about washington, with Katen there do we face a double whammy of pilfering?
ChapelHillMatt:: bill based on JS's comments how long do you think he'll be the GM here?
BillShanks:: Roy and Dayton are very close friends. In fact, when I asked Dayton about leaving Roy, he got choked up. It was a very emotional day for everybody Wednesday. But Roy will probably stay with us as long as JS is the GM. If he were to leave and someone else not named Dayton Moore was named GM, Roy would probably go join Dayton in KC
BoneThrower:: sorry clvclv, tried to PM you, but it wouldn't go thru. I thought ICQ used to be compatible with YM, but not any longer
BillShanks:: through 2009
BaseballGM2k2:: I say 2009 or 2010 for JS as well
BillShanks:: But who knows. Maybe 2010
bp4de:: do you think,if J.S. stays for say 3 more years,we can lure Daytom from KC?
depley:: would Bobby ever go back to GM?
tigger101023:: well, that's something. And it's a little different to have guys honor contracts for lateral moves
BillShanks:: Here's my worry about Dayton leaving for KC....
tigger101023:: it's not the same as denying an opportunity for a promotion
BaseballGM2k2:: Wren needs to go to DC, get JS to recomend him to Kasten
striker42:: Do you think there are a lot of scouts out there that Dayton would have hired had the Braves given him a bigger budget that he can now bring in at KC?
BaseballGM2k2:: I would think so Striker
tigger101023:: I know a lot of the scouting is networking, but it's possible that KC has competent people with no money
BaseballGM2k2:: If I'm not mistaken Bill mentioned a budge cut in that area... DM could easily jus bring htem to KC
tigger101023:: he may not need to clean house as much as we thing
striker42:: That's where I think Dayton would get his guys from right now. Guys out there he wanted but couldn't have as a Brave.
tigger101023:: I did read an interesting comment by Guy Hansen yesterday
BillShanks:: His staff, both in scouting and player development, is very loyal to him. Even if ONE scout leaves to go with him, which with Roy here that might keep most from leaving, although if he did follow Dayton it would be catastrophic. But if one scout left it could be significant. Think about it. Let's use Phil Dale, our scout from Australia, simply as an example. And believe me, I have heard nothing about Dale leaving, but I'm just using him as an example. Dale's been with us, as have many of our scouts, for a significant amount of time. If he leaves, that's a just person to replace. That scout with that much experience has a wealth of contacts. You don't want to lose a good scout like that. It can really hurt the organization. So what if we lost a couple of US scouts and several international guys? That's what I'm afraid of happening. It might not be immediately, but even if we look in the KC media guide in three years and see five former Braves scouts, then that's what bothers me.
BaseballGM2k2:: I have no doubt in my mind though that if given the chance KC will return to the form JS left it in
BillShanks:: And again, as long as Clark is here, there's less chance of scouts leaving, since they are also very loyal to him.
BaseballGM2k2:: agreed Bill
tigger101023:: Given that he listed developing the Latin scouting as a priority, I would think the international scouts would be more of a concern
BillShanks:: But I will not be surprised if some of our player development folks are coaching in KC or in their system next season.
striker42:: Then we needs to give Clark a raise and a big extension.
BeltHigh:: well, change happens ... strong organizations overcome it
BillShanks:: Yeah me too tigger
ChapelHillMatt:: how do you keep people like that bill? give them large contracts?
ChapelHillMatt:: you'd think they would be loyal to us
BeltHigh:: let's hope Liberty is committed to winning and will give JS resources he needs
BillShanks:: It does BeltHigh, but as you know from reading my book, the consistency in our front office is one of the key reasons for our success over the last fifteen years. We don't have many people leave. That's why this is a concern.
tigger101023:: If they don't want a promotion, you have to hope that money and intertia will do the trick
striker42:: Hopefully we can get the guys loyal to Dayton's replacement. Maybe they'll rreally like working for JJ.
tigger101023:: I would worry more if it was leaving for bad reasons, but it's not
BeltHigh:: JS is the main cog of stability and consistency. He has developed a lot of execs that other teams desire. Probably will continue doing so
BaseballGM2k2:: I got a feeling the next pitching Coach for KC will be the Missippippi coach
BillShanks:: I think it might be tough. Let's take a minor league manager. What if Dayton wanted Brian Snitker or Randy Ingle, two guys who have been managing in our system for 20 years, to be on their big league coaching staff or heck he might even have interest in Snitker as the Royals' manager. I just hate the idea of losing these people. Hell, losing Dayton was bad enough, but potentially losing more to go with him is what makes this a worry.
BillShanks:: But none like Dayton Belthigh
BaseballGM2k2:: 2 people we wouldn't mind him taking with him are Pendalton and Gonzalez though
tigger101023:: there's a couple Pendleton threads on the KC board
tigger101023:: compared to Bell, they act like they'd *love* to have TP
BillShanks:: Well I'm sure Pendleton and Blauser and Snitker's names will pop us
BillShanks:: I'm not sure TP wants to be a skipper.
BillShanks:: pop up
BeltHigh:: As well thought of as Moore is, this seems inevitable unless JS had retired. We're fortunate a team in the division or NL did not snap him up. But we move on.
striker42:: TP almost quit after his fist year because he hated being away from Atlanta for so long.
tigger101023:: Blauser was the one that came to mind for me - MS Braves were all Dayton's idea, yes?
striker42:: Gonzalez is going to be a manager in the very near future. KC with Dayton wouldn't be a bad plac for him.
tigger101023:: if they leave, they leave. I'm not sure Stit will ever get consideration as the Atlanta skipper, anyway
striker42:: I hope Yost is the next Atlanta manager.
striker42:: Yost is real good.
BillShanks:: As for Dayton's replacement, remember that he had been promoted to where technically he wasn't the Farm Director any more, but he really still was. He was "over" Roy Clark, but Roy still runs the draft, so there's no need to have anyone there. And in player development, J.J. Picollo was really handling many of the Farm Director's duties, so that will continue. One name to keep in mind as a potential Farm Director, if they think J.J. needs more time, is Chino Cadahia, our Minor League coordinator.
tigger101023:: I don't see it striker. Why come back? His club is fine
BillShanks:: I don't see Yost coming here, and I do think Snitker will be a candidate if he remains here for the Atlanta job.
BaseballGM2k2:: I think Eddie Perez would be a great manager... I see him as Ozzie w/o the mouth
tigger101023:: I saw in the AJC that Eddie may finally be close to accepting retirement. Does he stay in MS with Blauser or do something else in the organization?
depley:: the toughest job in baseball will be replacing Bobby Cox, hard to follow a legend and succeed
tigger101023:: that's funny 2k2, I dodn't see you ask that before I did
BillShanks:: Yeah Eddie will probably stay in Mississippi
BillShanks:: As for Frank Wren...
depley:: naybe Chuck Tanner will come back and promise us another parade lol
BaseballGM2k2:: Eddie and Jeff will make a great combo imo
depley:: that they would
BaseballGM2k2:: I think they will replace bobby and Patt
BaseballGM2k2:: just not sure which role goes to which
depley:: not sure it would matter
tigger101023:: hard to say
BeltHigh:: Blauser never struck me as a manager in the making. I'm surprised he went that direction
depley:: Blauser was always a great baseball history guy, did not surprise me at all
tigger101023:: I think Pratt's doing a great job catchign this year and I imagine that he'll help McCann immesely, but I'm glad Eddie was there last year
tigger101023:: I imagine McCann picked his brain, too
BeltHigh:: I'm a great baseball history guy too, but not a managerial candidate, lol
BeltHigh:: Don't start asking me for Tris Speaker stats, though. My books are at home
depley:: what? I thought we were all manager candidates, burst my bubble
BillShanks:: Personally I like Wren. He's always gracious to me when I ask him a question on rules or personnel. However, I've been around Dayton so much more over the last five years that I'm very partial to him. I just think Dayton was going to be the perfect replacement. That's more about having good feelings about Dayton than anything negative about Frank, although there have been a few things I've heard about his handling of some personnel decisions that have bothered me a bit. I've heard some agents don't like him much, but yet I think one of his duties is to be JS's hit man. So we'll see. I'd be surprised if Kasten does not come after Frank. And with JS sticking around for a while, you wonder how long he'll want to wait. That's going to be an attractive job in Washington, with Stan there and all that money.
BaseballGM2k2:: I think the biggest question we need ot ansewr...who is the ideal hitting coach for us 2007 and beyond
BaseballGM2k2:: agreed Bill
tigger101023:: our FA negotiations recently have been horrible and that's Wren's job. although, it may not be his fault since he can't exactly throw money around
BaseballGM2k2:: The resourses are there...
tigger101023:: ,aybe he just takes the fall...
striker42:: Is it just a rumor that Wren botched the Farnsworth negotiations or did he really screw them up?
BillShanks:: Let me be honest and say that I much rather have JS stick around long enough so Frank will get another job and maybe Dayton could come back!
BillShanks:: I think there were some problems communicating between us and Farn's agent.
depley:: would Fanrk take Fregiosi with him? that might be worth it
tigger101023:: I didn't know for sure about Fanrsy, but I do remember some nonsense regarding communication with Furcal's agent
striker42:: And Wren was doing the communicating.
tigger101023:: of course, with agents, you never know
weso1:: There's no telling who else will be ready if JS is going to stick around till the next decade.
striker42:: Who knows, in 5 years time we may have another Dayton Moore ready to step in.
weso1:: Hell, JS may stick around till JS Jr. is ready.
BillShanks:: Well Fregosi is one who doesn't really care about the farm. Dayton really protected the farm system.
tigger101023:: and they could go outside, too. It's doesn't have to be an internal promotion
BillShanks:: Now that he's gone, that's a worry. He fought for our guys to get their chance.
depley:: tigger JS sounded like that would be a long shot
striker42:: I keep expecting Fregosi to get a manager's job somewhere. That would hurt.
weso1:: Well, hopefully JS will promote someone who cares about the farm. I would think JS would want to hear both sides.
tigger101023:: all depends on how things look at the time
BillShanks:: weso he'd have to stick around until 2050. He'd be 110.
striker42:: JS at 110 would still be better than Steve Phillips at 45.
tigger101023:: Well, Bobby has a lot of say, too. Hopefully he'll be asking about the kids, too, and not jsut get more vets
BeltHigh:: So Bill, the choice seems to have come down to JS leaving so Dayton could rise ... or Dayton leaving. Would it have been better for JS to move aside?
weso1:: Don't you think JS will still want a voice for the kids? You have to remember that JS loved Moore also
tigger101023:: it's wasted money and effort ifyou don't use them. Someone will keep them coming up to Atlanta
striker42:: I think JS will want a guy there to tell him which kids to sell high on and which not to sell at all on.
BillShanks:: Well Belt that's a difficult question to answer. I do not want JS to leave. However, losing Dayton, who I saw as the Braves' GM for the 20 years following JS's retirement, hurts. I wouldn't want JS to step aside right now though.
weso1:: It's nice to have a guy yelling "Hudson!" in one ear and another guy yelling "Meyer!" in the other.
BillShanks:: Yeah weso it was. Now that guy is gone.
weso1:: Or one guy wanting Drew and the other wanting to keep Wainwright.
BillShanks:: That's what he did too!
tigger101023:: seems that Wainwright's finally coming on.
striker42:: I think Dayton was probably yelling "Kepp Davies" louder than anything about Meyer.
weso1:: But do you think JS will look to promote a Mooreish type, so that he can still have that other voice.
tigger101023:: really though, win-win situations are best. Yes, we lost a good prospect, but that makes STL more likey to deal again
BillShanks:: For me, if Dayton were to replace JS, we would have seen a continuation of what we've had the last fifteen years, as far as philosophy, policy, and environment. Not knowing as much about Wren, I can't say the same thing.
tigger101023:: if they other team always gets garbage, why play at all?
striker42:: PEAVY!!! Wild!
clvclv:: Am I here?
striker42:: I can't believe that!
tigger101023:: LOL @ striker
BillShanks:: Well weso it'll be tough. No one in the office has the voice (right now) that Moore had. Moore had gained JS's trust, so JS listened to him. I don't think he's immediately going to listen to J.J. or Chino Cadahia that closely just yet.
weso1:: Well, the good news is that it seems like Moore was the man they wanted to replace JS with.
BillShanks:: Again for those who missed it, I apologize for being late. I've been sick this morning and that was the reason for my tardiness.
BillShanks:: And it was more than being sick about Dayton leaving!
BillShanks:: Okay do we want to talk about the draft a bit?
BeltHigh:: hope you're feeling better
weso1:: I guess the problem period will be before the trade deadline and this coming offseason until JS can trust someone who sticks up for the kids.
BaseballGM2k2:: draft talk sounds good
depley:: lets se, we have 7 picks in what 2 1/2 rounds?
tigger101023:: well, finances will also keep the young guys coming. I just can't see us giving away the far,mfor a buch of old farts
weso1:: We just have to hope that our need for a closer doesn't kill our pen.
emk418:: Bill, have you heard of Ryan Kalish
BillShanks:: 7 out of the top 100
BillShanks:: I have not emk.
BillShanks:: DOn't think I have.
weso1:: Bill, does the Moore move increase our chances to get the mystery player?
depley:: and we will draft highschool pitchers in 6 out of 7 lol?
emk418:: oh ok, i played with him since i was 7.....hes in the draft
emk418:: hes listed on mlb.com
BillShanks:: Let's not discuss that now weso. It does have an impact on it, but I really don't want to go down that road today.
weso1:: Ok, that's cool.
striker42:: So who's at the top of the Braves' board?
depley:: Georgia doesn't really have any Franceour /McCann types this year does it?
BillShanks:: The only thing I'll say is that Dayton's departure may expediate the decision on whether that deal is ever made. So you guys might know the story sooner!
BillShanks:: The draft...
BillShanks:: The state of Georgia sucks big time this year. Not a good year at all.
Betemit7:: KASEY KIKER, do you think he will fall to us. And if so does the Braves really seem as interested as some reports has reported after his private workout?
Betemit7:: Especially with the "makeup issues"
BillShanks:: I think Kiker is definitely a name to keep in mind, along with Cory Rasmus. Kiker's makeup questions are not a worry to the Braves. They do really like him.
BillShanks:: The Anderson kid in Oklahoma is another name to keep in mind. He's a LHP from HS whose dad is the head coach at Ok. ST.
Betemit7:: Good. I watched him several times over the past couple years. Here in Montgomery and the surrounding areas
depley:: do the braves look for someone college level for a moreimmediate type of help?
BillShanks:: What do you think about him Betemit7?
BaseballGM2k2:: you find any info on DAWG 1B/OF Josh Norris
Zubbie15:: Bill, do you know if we have any interest in Parmelee or Anderson, both HS 1B?
emk418:: i dont ever remember us having this many picks this early
weso1:: I like getting these kids with high school coaches.
weso1:: or college coaches.
murph3:: I am back guys.
BillShanks:: We do have an interest in Parmelee. He was in for a workout last weekend. But I'm afraid he might be gone before 24. If he's on the board, it might be between Parmalee and Kiker. But the worry is the Dodgers might take Kiker at 26.
BillShanks:: We had this many picks in 03 and 00 emk.
Betemit7:: Great Stuff. I really didn't see any makeup issues as has been reported. Comes from a good program.
BillShanks:: His delivery?
BillShanks:: Just watched the video of him last night on mlb.com
Betemit7:: Good Mechanics. Seems to be a repeatable delivery.
emk418:: nevermind then haha
BillShanks:: Well he's probably a good bet to be our top pick. But even he might be gone before 24.
BillShanks:: I do not know what our guys feel about the Waldron kid out of Texas. I'm going to try and find out. He's slipping a bit.
striker42:: The Braves thought Devine would be gone last year didn't they? Who knows, another pick like that could fall to us.
clvclv:: How about the third UNC Pitcher...second round maybe?
clvclv:: Haven't looked at the updated projections today
Betemit7:: I don't think he will fall to 24, and I also don't think Anderson will be there. However this years draft seems to be very unpredictable.
BillShanks:: There are some college pitchers to remember. If Brooks Brown slid to 38, that might be our choice. But he's probably going in the 25-35 area.
BillShanks:: UNC Pitcher? Bard? Miller will be gone by 3.
Betemit7:: I think he is speaking of the third UNC pitcher. Not Miller or Bard.
BillShanks:: I don't know much about the third pitcher. Do you Betemit7?
tigger101023:: man, Miller got hammered in the ACCT
BaseballGM2k2:: Brooks Brown as in UGA Brooks Brown Bill?
BillShanks:: Did he tigger?
tigger101023:: I guess every once in while is ok - but he ain't going to the Braves....
BaseballGM2k2:: thougth so bill
BaseballGM2k2:: he's a top 5 pick...def not comgin to ATL
Betemit7:: No. I have caught a few games on Fox South
Betemit7:: but I don't know much about him
tigger101023:: I won't be surpirsed to see Miller go to KC
BillShanks:: If I can find my list, I'll give you my predictions for the top 7 picks.
BillShanks:: Oh let me ask this.....
striker42:: Didn't we draft Brown in 2003
BillShanks:: Do you guys want to be in the chat room on Tuesday during the draft?????
BillShanks:: Or what?
murph3:: Are we still going to talk about the team in a little bit?
clvclv:: Thought Bard was projected as a possible Top 10 as well...the third guy's name escapes me at the moment.
BillShanks:: Yes murph. Just trying not to jump around too much. On the draft now
tigger101023:: I don't remember, either
BaseballGM2k2:: chat sounds good to me if I'm not at work
BillShanks:: NC state has a few pitchers. Don't know about a third UNC pitcher.
tigger101023:: going 0-2 in the ACCT cost UNC a national seed, I bet.
Betemit7:: I think that would be a good idea Bill
tigger101023:: hey Mike
BillShanks:: Well I'll be at Turner Field Tuesday in the press box. We'll be listening online of course and have initial reactions from Roy Clark (good gried I almost wrote Dayton's name). So we'll be here and can be in the chat room.
BillShanks:: I'll be getting interviews with the players, but I'm also co-hosting the postgame show on the Braves' Radio Network again (Monday and) Tuesday so it'll be a hectic day.
clvclv:: Hey Mike, did you find out if they're still going to let you be a moderator from Shea???
BaseballGM2k2:: bill you know you live for stuff like that though
tigger101023:: looks like there's a Woodard at UNC. Is that who you meant?
clvclv:: That's it tigger...think he's the #3 guy.
MikeAdams:: Oh, man, it kills me that I was traded to the Mets. Ah, well
striker42:: Mike, you're gonna have to ban yourself as a Mets troll.
BaseballGM2k2:: mike you'll just have to stink it up if you make the bigs..
BillShanks:: It'll be a fun day.
BillShanks:: Okay here's one series of my predictions. I'll make some final predictions on Monday.
clvclv:: Afraid I'll just have to check in sporadically Tuesday...*amn this work stuff!!!
BillShanks:: 1 / 24 - Kasey Kiker
MikeAdams:: I promise to stink if I make it to the bigs. I remember when Met fans were whining that Glavine was a Braves plant back when he sucked for them.
BillShanks:: S / 38 - Stephen King - INF from Florida
BillShanks:: S / 43 - RHP - Alex White - RHP HS
BillShanks:: 2 / 51 - Jason Place - OF from SC
BillShanks:: 2 / 68 - Zach Britton - LHP
clvclv:: Think Place will slide that far?
BillShanks:: 2 / 72 - Cory Rasmus - RHP from Bama
BillShanks:: 3 / 100 - Tony Watson - College LHP
BillShanks:: 4 / 130 - Torre Langley - C from GA JHS
BillShanks:: 5 / 160 - Hassan Pena - RHP - JUCO in FL
tigger101023:: Langley, why do I know that name? Maybe he's committed to Tech...
BillShanks:: Okay... not sure clv... We're going to take an OF somewhere in those top 7.
striker42:: I wish you could trade draft picks. It would be sweet to deal two of these for a top pick.
Betemit7:: That would be a nice story with two players picked from the same high school team
BillShanks:: Yeah I hope we get em.
clvclv:: Just have the feeling Place will go higher considering the lack of offense in this draft.
BillShanks:: Check the story I did on HS players in GA tigger. Not sure if Langley is committed to Tech or what.
BillShanks:: He might clv. He might. I just know we really want a HS OF somewhere in those Top 7 picks, and with Parmalee probably going early, Place looks like our type of player.
BillShanks:: Yeah Langley's committed to GT
clvclv:: Of course, I've waited until the last minute to do my research...going to spend a good chunk of my weekend looking it over.
BillShanks:: Also keep Florida HS pitchers in mind. Florida is stacked this year.
BillShanks:: Colten Willems could be an option for us if Kiker is gone.
tigger101023:: Ah, now I see the same school. Kell is like a mile from my house
tigger101023:: never mind, i'm just confused
BillShanks:: I think Chris Perez, the closer from Univ. of Miami, might be someone we could take a look at.
clvclv:: Wondered about him myself Bill.
BillShanks:: Jacob Brigham, from a HS in Ocoee, might be a candidate
clvclv:: Just wonder if JS will be a little gunshy after the stumbles with Joey.
BillShanks:: Florida is packed. 33 of the Top 200 in the nation on BA's list are from Florida.
tigger101023:: Perez - he's one of thse "effectively wild" guys
Betemit7:: Rasmus and Kiker both played pitched for Russell County (AL)
BillShanks:: I don't think so clv. And JS doesn't take players, Roy does.
BillShanks:: Yeah tigger I read that. Have you seen him play against GT?
tigger101023:: Yeah, I watched him iin the tourney - we beat UM twice
BillShanks:: Any good?
clvclv:: Don't you think he might put that thought in the back of Roy's head somewhere though?
tigger101023:: nasty stuff, but he does rack up the walks
Betemit7:: Just watched the video on Pena
Betemit7:: He looked to have a nasty slider
BillShanks:: No clv. JS has nothing to do with Roy's selection.
BillShanks:: Yeah Pena's been hurt. He might slip further down.
BillShanks:: I wonder if Drabek fell if we'd take him at 24.
BillShanks:: He seems to be really falling.
tigger101023:: it's hard to judge closers vs. Tech though. We make really good ones look bad
striker42:: That kid any relation to Doug Drabek?
BillShanks:: tigger tell me about some of your pitchers at GT. I won't be surprised if we take one of them.
clvclv:: He scares me to death Bill, but will obviously turn out to be the best candidate to be the "steal of the draft" for someone (Drabek).
BillShanks:: Drabek is Doug's son.
tigger101023:: Are Gus and Jeff still buds? I knew they both went to parkview
BillShanks:: Not sure.
BillShanks:: I would imagine
tigger101023:: Gus has been hurt most of the year
BillShanks:: He any good?
BillShanks:: when healthy?
tigger101023:: the plan was to take him out of the pen and start him, he was so awesome in the postseason, but it didn't work
tigger101023:: to my untrained eye, yes
tigger101023:: we may get him back this year yet
BillShanks:: He might clv. And we might take him higher with that 38 or 43.
BillShanks:: If they like him.
tigger101023:: how high will a guy like that get drafted? How much do injuries matter?
BillShanks:: They do want an OF I think in one of those top four picks. I'd be shocked if we don't get one that early.
BillShanks:: They matter. I would think he might lose a round or two due to the injuries. Was he mainly a reliever at GT?
BillShanks:: Another name to wonder about is Chris Marrero, an infielder from Pace HS in Florida. Top position player in the nation before the season, but he's slipper. If he's on the board, I wonder if we'd draft him. We have scouted him a great deal.
BillShanks:: Anyone have any questions about the draft before we move on to talk about the team?
tigger101023:: I saw a link that had Timman as a possibility if we miss on Kikker. Know anything about him?
BillShanks:: I really don't. Just know he's a tall HS P
striker42:: I just wish we could get Brooks Brown.
BillShanks:: Me too striker
murph3:: I got a question about the draft that will lead into talking about the team!
striker42:: I watched him pitch a 3 hitter against Tenn and K 14. He's a beast.
murph3:: Are we drafting any closers?
BillShanks:: But I think we'd take Kiker before Brown and Brown will be gone at 38.
striker42:: This is when trading picks would be great.
BillShanks:: Yeah I think we will striker. I would be surprised if we don't get a college closer in the top 7 picks.
tigger101023:: why only closers? why not starters?
Zubbie15:: what players have we brought to Turner Field lately for workouts?
BillShanks:: Yes it would striker. Not being able to trade picks is the dumbest thing in baseball.
striker42:: Easier to train a HS starter to your way. College starters sometimes have bad habits.
BeltHigh:: What's the rational for not trading picks as a policy?
striker42:: There is none
BillShanks:: Well take both I think tigger. I can see us making a Dan Meyer-like pick in those top 7 and maybe a Devine-type pick as well. But the college closers are slipping on the boards.
BillShanks:: There is none Belt. Just more stupidity from baseball.
tigger101023:: So, Hochevar is back, huh? What a mess
striker42:: Baseball needs to see the first 10 rounds of their draft like Football.
BillShanks:: Tony Watson is a college starter. That's why I threw him in my predictions.
MikeAdams:: Hmmm....I wonder what was the rationale behind not trading draft picks....I'll see if I can find out
tigger101023:: I see. And a guy like Hanson might as well be, being a JUCO and all
BillShanks:: WHatever it might be publicly, it's just stupidity. There is no reason.
striker42:: They need to have the big room with a clock and have GM's walk out there and announce a draft pick with a jersey.
tigger101023:: well, that's easier when the NFL draft has like 6 rounds and MLB has like 60
BillShanks:: Yes tigger. Hanson might have been a fourth or fifth rounder if he was in the draft, so that helps with that. If we don't draft a college starter early, it might be because of Tommy.
depley:: not sure I could handle all that loud ESPN banter for baseball, its bad enough for football
striker42:: You don't have to sell the whole thing. Just have a big first day with 10 rounds or so and televise it and everything and do the rest in the conference call later that week.
BillShanks:: Our draft and follows really help us in our strategy. Curtis and Hanson and Chapman might be in Danville's rotation.
tigger101023:: man, I wanted to see where Leinart would end up, I think I had to watch 2-3 hours to see him go 10th. Ugh
clvclv:: If it wasn't for Boras, I'd love to see Hochevar slip again...there'd be your automatic pick at 24
tigger101023:: yeah, I think signability is an issue with him
BillShanks:: When you think about simply how many players there are and family members that would watch the draft, that would create a large audiance in itself.
striker42:: Hochevar will be gone long, long, long before out pick.
BillShanks:: Hochevar might go to KC at 1
tigger101023:: I wonder who will take him
striker42:: I thought Barsfield was gonna go number 1.
clvclv:: Domebody who's desperate tigger.
tigger101023:: you think so? I don't know if they could sign him
BillShanks:: That's the rumor going around.
clvclv:: Somebody, even.
striker42:: Hochevar would quickly run out of options if he doesn't sign this time.
clvclv:: KC will never get him signed...talk about a wasted pick.
tigger101023:: and whenever I read about him, I always see the $4 mil bonus thathe wanted, but hardly anyone mentions the major league contaract he also wanted
BillShanks:: They might clv. What leverage does he have now?
clvclv:: Same that all Boras clients have...that he's hard-headed enough to hold him out until he becomes a free agent.
tigger101023:: he's still pitching pretty darn well
tigger101023:: and to think another agent had him almost $3 mil and a chance to be pitching
BillShanks:: It's going to be a fun day on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to it.
BillShanks:: Here are a few things to keep in mind....
BillShanks:: Our scouting budget, despite 4 more picks, is the same as last year. No increase from the jerks at TW.
BaseballGM2k2:: so does anyone think MLB should make picks tradeable?
BillShanks:: That might force us to have a similar draft as last year, where we draft a lot of guys we'll want to have as DNF's.
bellbell:: i think that liberty might give us some more $. they did so for joe sakic
BillShanks:: Expect a HS C somewhere in the top 10 rounds. Expect an OF and maybe a 2B in the top five rounds.
BeltHigh:: 2k2, I can't see any obvous reason for not allowing pick trading.
BillShanks:: Isaiah Ka'aihue and Tyler Flowers means we might not have to draft a 1B early
BaseballGM2k2:: only rule I'd have would be you can't trade it straight up for cash
BaseballGM2k2:: because then teams like the Yankees would have all the picks
tigger101023:: and you think a crappy player and ton of cash isn't the same thing?
BeltHigh:: good point.
BeltHigh:: Pick and roll
tigger101023:: never thought about it, but without a salary cap (and a floor), maybe trading picks is a bad idea
striker42:: Trading picks would hep our budget this year. Deal two picks for one higher one. That would be great.
tigger101023:: another catcher, huh?
BillShanks:: Can never have too many catchers
BaseballGM2k2:: I don't think you could stop teams like Yanks from havin the top picks every yr
BillShanks:: Max Ramirez probably won't be a MLB catcher, and if we did ever trade Salty, our system behind McCann would not be as deep.
tigger101023:: it's really only the Yanks, too. Other big market, big money teams like LAA, LAD & Boston are fine in the farm system, right?
BaseballGM2k2:: the more I hear of Max Ramirez the more I think of Daric Barton
BillShanks:: Not bad GM2k2
BaseballGM2k2:: MEts would do the same thing as Yanks
BeltHigh:: Salty has gone from being untouchable in the winter to being primo trade bait (at least in our minds). I guess that's why a steady hand at the helm is so vital
tigger101023:: that's true
BaseballGM2k2:: thx Bill
tigger101023:: I forgot about them
Zubbie15:: if max ramirez itsn't going to be a catcher, why are we taking up his developmental time learning the position?
bellbell:: bill- what is up with salty?
tigger101023:: I know these things tend to work out, but I can easily see Salty being traded
BaseballGM2k2:: I'd still prefer ot hang on to Salty...I'm just willing to move him for a potential Smoltz replacement..
striker42:: McCann's performance and the Braves not moving Salty have made us think trade bait.
BillShanks:: Just off to a slow start bellbell. He's really been concentrating on his defense. Plus, this Scott Boras crap has been a distraction.
tigger101023:: oh, I forgot about that
bravesfan247:: are we on the team yet?
BillShanks:: You guys ready to move from the draft?
tigger101023:: probably soon, 247
depley:: Bill is Salty worth more as a catcher or a 1b ? would seem to the braves he might be of more use as a 1b
clvclv:: The more important question (for me anyway) is that even though we KNOW Bobby doesn't come out and say someone's lost their job in public, Ray is now the guy, isn't he?
BaseballGM2k2:: depth,trade value reasons Zubbie
tigger101023:: You would think so, clv, but I have my doubts
BillShanks:: Yes as a minor leaguer Salty is much more valuable as a C. A switch-hitting C with that power is hard to duplicate.
depley:: ok lets move on the the pen, we only have like 8 hours left in the day
tigger101023:: I wonder if Kolb and Leo butting heads worked to our advantage last year
tigger101023:: maybe Chris is just too freikin nice
BillShanks:: I think we'll see Ray get more time as the closer. Like last year when Cox slowly moved Kolb out of the closer's role, we'll see that with Chris as well.
MSBraves27:: i hope so
BaseballGM2k2:: also The Braves don't want to move him then see McCann get hurt and not be able to catch anymore
depley:: how many still think the solution to the pen is not going to be answered internally?
bravesfan247:: i would like to see reitsma set up Ray
tigger101023:: yeah, but you have that problem with all position players. They still traded away Marte
Betemit7:: LaRoche's power has been good, but the singles ain't there and the K's are piling up. Is it time to look at Thorman.
bravesfan247:: Some guys are role guys - reitsmas role is setup
BillShanks:: There is no doubt in my mind that a trade will be made eventually
striker42:: I think we almost have to get a reliever in the next 3 weeks to float the pen until a big gun becomes available. We can't keep having the pen kill momentum.
depley:: ok betemit7 let me ask a question
ChapelHillMatt:: i still maintain we are one good arm away from having a capable pen, problem is the roles are all out of whack
tigger101023:: I was amused by Chipper saying "they don't pay me to hit 150 singles every year"
clvclv:: How solid is that "thought" Bill? We don't need to go broadcasting it publicly, but it would help a couple of my fantasy teams, not to mention help me sleep a little better at night.
depley:: if you had Adam Dunn or Laroche to use at first which one do you use?
MSBraves27:: betemit7 you know good and well laroche is an allstar lol
bravesfan247:: Bill, are you at all suprised by horam's great performances?
clvclv:: (If Ray is now the guy, I mean.)
Betemit7:: In some peoples mind ...
BillShanks:: Well look, how many years has JS made an in-season trade to improve the club? I think all but two of the fifteen seasons he's been here. So why should we think he's not going to make a move this summer with an obvious glaring lead.
Betemit7:: Don't even compare Dunn with LaRoche.
depley:: Horacio didn't surprise Bill, he (as well as I and one or 2 othrs ) have been Horam fans from get go
tigger101023:: I'm lucky. Saves are such a small part of my league, I'm doing great with guys like Wainwright and Shields
MikeAdams:: I've been hard on LaRoche, but he's been fine this year. He's a pretty minor worry *at this point*
BillShanks:: No 247. You know I have faith in Ho. I'm not ever going to be surprised by him having success. The kid can pitch.
depley:: betemit7 why not? Dunn strikes out more, has only 2 rbi more and hitting a whoppong .02 higher than Laroche
bravesfan247:: if so, what is the difference?
BaseballGM2k2:: Tigger on June 15th, 2004 you pretty much could have signed Marte the Brave's Death Certificate
ChapelHillMatt:: i for one am surprised by horacio but in a good way,kid has been outstanding so far, hope he keeps it up
MikeAdams:: Dunn has an OBP through the roof.
tigger101023:: well, Dunn's OBP will always be stellar. That's something
tigger101023:: wht he said
BillShanks:: Mike give me some "stathead" reasons, if you will, why LaRoche is having a good season despite his low average. I made that general comment on the Braves' radio network the other night but I'd like more specifics as to why that is true.
bravesfan247:: this year? I heard an annoucer say last night that ho suffered bc of the low and away mentally that was pushed on all pitchers
depley:: if he isn't driving in runs what good is getting on base?
tigger101023:: I'm not Mike, but his SLG is real high and he has a ton of XBH
tigger101023:: at least last I checked
MikeAdams:: Bill, it mainly has to do with his power. LaRoche is slugging around .500. He's still below average for a 1st baseman, but considering his cost, it's OK
BaseballGM2k2:: I didn't see Horacio Pitch last nite...I Saw Tom Glavine of 1997 out there
clvclv:: Mike's busy...loading his bags for his plane trip to Flushing.
BillShanks:: Ho looks good. He looks in control. He looks more aggressive, which has always been my contention as to what he needed to get better.
murph3:: I know avg. is important but not as important as it is cracked up to be. 5 more hits and LaRoche would be hitting .271
depley:: no cutter, makes Horam a different pitcher
bravesfan247:: do YOU think he suffered under Leo's rules?
MikeAdams:: That K rate, though...eventually those defensive plays won't be made
bravesfan247:: seems to me he might have
striker42:: When HoRam nibbles he gets into trouble. You saw that last night. When he nibbled he started throwing balls and walking guys. When he was agressive, they couldn't touvh him.
tigger101023:: The K/BB ratio of 1:5 last night isn't great, but all the groundballs were excellent. I guess you have to pick your battles
BaseballGM2k2:: Sinker,Curve,Change...occasional get over 4 Seemer
BaseballGM2k2:: that's what Horacio needs to work with
tigger101023:: I am shocked that with Cruz's stuff, he only had 1 K, right?
BillShanks:: Leo was not a fan of Ho's and Ho was not a fan of Leo. Ho changed his style when he came here to adjust to Leo, which cost him some effectivenes.
tigger101023:: but he had no walks
striker42:: Mike, the Braves have a stellar infield defensive unit. It's perfectly fine to go with a guy like HoRam when you have the Braves infield. If your infield sucks then you don't want him.
bellbell:: that is what i figured bill- will betemit ever get time at 1st
BillShanks:: He's cut out that cuter.
MikeAdams:: LaRoche has hit 1 run below the average 1st baseman...fine for a player making minimum...
BillShanks:: No bellbell. I don't see that happening.
MikeAdams:: I don't think the Brave IF defense is very good, to be honest
tigger101023:: except that we don't striker. We used to. The right side is good, the left side, not so much
tigger101023:: Mike's beating me to everything
BillShanks:: Why is that Mike?
striker42:: After seeing that DP last night, how can you say that?
MikeAdams:: Chipper and Renteria have been subpar. Giles is average/slighty above. LaRoche is pretty good.
depley:: one might think renteria has struggled at short, but only 6 errors, Furcal has 11
clvclv:: I proprsed this earlier, and it is a bit of a reach, but now that there are more people here...IF James is ready to go into the rotation, how about Thomson for Francisco Cordero?
BillShanks:: I think Renteria's been solid over at SS.
bravesfan247:: 2 questions: When is Davies coming back and when he does - considering Sosa and Ho keep pitching the way they have, wouldnt Thomson be great trade bait?
bellbell:: only reason i saw it is b/c of youklis and how well he is doing over there
BillShanks:: Not spectacular, but solid - which I can more than live with.
MikeAdams:: I care about errors more than range, and so far the stats are showing Renteria and Chipper with mediocre range
striker42:: Chipper's defense is far too maligned. Defensive stats suck. Always have. You watch Chipper and he's fine.
ChapelHillMatt:: you know people keep saying chipper is bad over there but all i see his him making plays, i don't this huge glaring weakness to be honest
tigger101023:: I think LaRoche and Giles have looked excellent, but Renteria's glove has been spotty
MikeAdams:: I have always defended Chipper's defense, but I can't this year.
depley:: I agree chapel
BillShanks:: But don't you guys think Chipper's D is better now than before he moved to LF?
tigger101023:: I think it's bad over there, but it's not excellent, either
depley:: yes bill
striker42:: Chipper's defense is fine
MikeAdams:: Chipper has been very good since the move until this year. Injuries may be adding up, along with age.
tigger101023:: I menat I don't think it's bad, but it' s nto excellent
BillShanks:: You think he's noticably poorer defensively at 3B this year Mike?
weso1:: I think he's been looking better lately, and I think he's been running better as well.
striker42:: Renteria isn't as flashy as Furcal but he's good. He makes the plays and will only get better as he and Giles get in better sync.
ChapelHillMatt:: nah, it's not excellent but people are making him out to be miggy over there which isn't true
weso1:: And by lately I mean within the past couple weeks.
MikeAdams:: Yeah, I think so. He doesn't seem to be moving laterally very well (not that he was ever great). Still, this could be injury-related and he may get better.
ChapelHillMatt:: that play by renteria last night was outsanding, footwork on the DP was special
murph3:: I cringe everytime Chipper runs the bases.
tigger101023:: To me, Renteria's problem is what Furcal finally cut out in 2005. He doesn't makeall the routine plays
depley:: how about Giles even getting to that ball
BaseballGM2k2:: I've bene impressed with Chipper's defense
BaseballGM2k2:: Giles has been the best defensive 2B in the game
MikeAdams:: Renteria and Chipper both rank near the bottom in Zone Rating, fwiw - as does Furcal..Giles is a little above average. Andruw decent, Langerhans excellent, Francoeur good.
BaseballGM2k2:: Renteria has been fine just made a few bone head plays
BaseballGM2k2:: and LaRoche has looked good all but about 3 or 4 plays
BillShanks:: And Zone Rating is...?
depley:: Furcal ranks among the lowest in range?
MikeAdams:: But it's still early to be relying on defensive stats.
bellbell:: you think kelly j would have been up here had he not been hurty?
MikeAdams:: Zone Rating - amount of balls hit into you zone converted into outs.
tigger101023:: I do really like LaRoche's D, though. I see his range get slammed, but honestly, how much range is a 1B supposed to have?
BaseballGM2k2:: see that's where statheads drive me crazy...defense shouldn't be judged on stats
BaseballGM2k2:: let me look with my own eyes
BillShanks:: And how do you judge LaRoche's defense Mike?
ChapelHillMatt:: well if we are going to use defensive stats then let's use range factor for andruw, if that's the case then there are better CF'ers out there and i don't buy that at all
MikeAdams:: Stats + Eyes works.
BillShanks:: Me neither Matt
MikeAdams:: I think LaRoche is solid/good. Not Gold Glove.
BillShanks:: No I meant how good do you think he is over there.
MikeAdams:: Brian Jordan I think is....errrrr....
BaseballGM2k2:: Andruw #'s have always been rated low in the stat areas...but everyone in the world(outside of STL) will tell you he's the best CF Now and at worst #2 all time
tigger101023:: Druw's looked great
BillShanks:: Does he help our infield defense, especially since CHipper and Renteria are not doing that well?
MikeAdams:: I think LaRoche helps - he's good at digging out throws
BillShanks:: Of course I'm asking these questions from a statistical standpoint.
MikeAdams:: Well, one thing that is hard to measure is 1st basemen digging out bad throws...
MikeAdams:: You kinda have to use your eyes there
BillShanks:: And how much they save our infielders from errors. There's not a stat on that, right?
ChapelHillMatt:: just curious, what would cause one to become a stathead? are you born one? doesn't seem like something you'd want to be
MikeAdams:: I'm sure somebody tracks it (probably STATS) but it's not public knowledge
BillShanks:: I'm not saying nothing!
clvclv:: Give me this much...if we have a 3 run lead in the 9th tonight, I'm not going to have to order a shot (or more) of 1800 because I see Reitsma coming in, right Bill?
MikeAdams:: For me, it was just trying to get a better understanding of the game. the Braves newsgroup back in 1996 turned me onto stats.
BaseballGM2k2:: to bad voters don't use their eyes often enough...cause JE and DJ woudlnt' be getting gold gloves
BillShanks:: You might have to order a stiff drink clv.
MikeAdams:: To be fair, there's no way a voter could watch enough games to estimate a player's ability. I don't think they use stats either. GGs are 95% reputation.
depley:: not to mention they are tainted by offensive numbers for tha tyear
BillShanks:: Mike did you happen to read a certain article by a stathead writer about LaRoche being a poor defender?
BaseballGM2k2:: true.. but still
MikeAdams:: Oh, yeah, offense is pretty big in determining GGs as well - as is being in a big market.
clvclv:: I have to move out of Verlander today, and I've narrowed my choices to Ray and Todd Coffey...guess I've got to go get Coffey now.
BaseballGM2k2:: am I the only one who thinks AJ looks better this yr on D than he has in 2 or 3 yrs?
BeltHigh:: why is Cox giving Reitsma more rope to hang the team than he gave Kolb? Handwriting on wall for Reits just as much as it was for Kolb, stuff or no stuff
MikeAdams:: No, I haven't Bill. I think 1st baseman defense is difficult to judge statistically.
BillShanks:: I do GM2k2
depley:: Andruw looks leaner and is moving better than the past couple years
TallahasseeBravo:: ok, just got back. When does ARod report to the Braves?
BillShanks:: Well one stathead writer, who I admit does not like me and I do not like him at all, wrote recently that LaRoche was just plain bad at first base.
BaseballGM2k2:: I think there are 2 factors ... his Knee is completey healthy now and he knows 100% what he can expect out of Langs and JEff
depley:: well on one play Laroche was really really bad, but for the most part I think he is above average
MikeAdams:: I don't think LaRoche is a gold glover, but I'm surprised someone thinks he's bad. I don't see it.
BillShanks:: Yeah GM
ChapelHillMatt:: when i think of someone being plain bad at 1st ken caminiti comes to mind, not laroche
striker42:: David Ortiz comes to mind as well.
BillShanks:: Well to me, that's just someone looking at some stat that does not watch the Braves actually play.
BillShanks:: Yeah exactly
depley:: actaully Brian Jordan comes to minf lol
BaseballGM2k2:: who's this writer bill...ew might have to send him some emails and tell him to quit his job while he's ahead...
MikeAdams:: I mean, I watched Fred McGriff over there and LaRoche is soooooo much better
ChapelHillMatt:: laroche's probelm is he's graceful over there and people take that as him not trying, Jordan just isn't a 1st baseman
MikeAdams:: Despite Bill Emanski's fielding drills, Fred was awful.
weso1:: Rochey's got good hands over there, and he's tall which helps him to be an above average 1b.
BaseballGM2k2:: Big Cat was the man at 1B we can all agree on that though ...since we are bringing up old 1B
BaseballGM2k2:: in ATL history
weso1:: I'm not sure how quick he his on his feet though.
ChapelHillMatt:: i miss the Cat
MikeAdams:: Well, Big Cat was good, but by the time his ATL run came about, he had lost a lot of quickness
BaseballGM2k2:: same here...wish he'd get into coaching
tigger101023:: I was going to ask if Druw looked better than last year, but not having watched for long, I feared it was a dumb question
BaseballGM2k2:: he'd make a good hitting coach
tigger101023:: I think he looks better, too
BaseballGM2k2:: lol tigger
MikeAdams:: Druw looks better....he's not 1996 Druw, but he's better than 2003 Druw.
weso1:: I think we may have Big Cat part 2 playing for us in a couple years.
BillShanks:: The article was one of the sports economists who believes he knows baseball. He hates me and he hated my book because he wouldn't know what baseball was all about if it bit him in the butt.
tigger101023:: being LH helps to, right?
weso1:: Rochey doesn't really need to cover a ton of ground over at 1b because Giles covers lots of ground over at 2nd.
BaseballGM2k2:: who's that Weso?
tigger101023:: I don't think anyone will ever be 1996 Druw again
weso1:: That Kaahiuia kid
BaseballGM2k2:: Adam has better than Avg range though
BaseballGM2k2:: oh ya
BillShanks:: Here is what this dude wrote:
BaseballGM2k2:: still not sure about him...just cause of age reasons...but of course Ryan Howard is 26/27?
BillShanks:: — He is NOT a good defensive player. Those touting him for future gold gloves are either deluded or flat lying. Yeah, he's not Giambi, but, he's not good by any defensive metric out there. And my own perceptions of his play confirm what the stats show.
BillShanks:: — He doesn't have the team-leader "intangibles." By all accounts he is quiet, and his nickname "three-second delay" indicates he's not the guy teammates rally around.
weso1:: So, trying to keep on the topic of baseball. Should I close my crawl space vents in the summer? I'm getting conflicting info.
BaseballGM2k2:: Bill James write this?
ChapelHillMatt:: is there a more hated brave in our history? the hatred for this kid is unbelievable
tigger101023:: what that second part has to do with D, I don't know. However, he doesn't seem to be the spirited team leader type
BillShanks:: The last comment by this idiot, and yes it's JC Bradbury, is ridiculous. How in the hell does he know? I have NEVER seen him in the Braves' clubhouse covering the team. He doesn't know how LaRoche is in there.
Betemit7:: Kenny Lofton???
depley:: more hated? see Dan Kolb
tigger101023:: Reggie Sanders?
ChapelHillMatt:: i think people treat kolb and reitsma better than they do larcoche
clvclv:: Len Barker???
weso1:: I think everyone hated Kolbb. At least Rochey has supporters
BaseballGM2k2:: Kenny Lofton ...and just think some guys want his clone in Jaun Pierre...
tigger101023:: I don't think people treat Kolb better than LaRoche
clvclv:: Yeah, but Barker cost us Butler.
BaseballGM2k2:: Jim Laryitz
BillShanks:: I threw that last comment in there that he made to show how stupid this guy is. He is completely wrong about LaRoche and his intangibles. He might be slow, but the players do really look up to Adam as a team leader.
depley:: other team players well Kent Hrbek
ChapelHillMatt:: at least if someone made an error while kolb was pitching kolb didn't get blamed for it, if that happens now laroche gets all the blame
BaseballGM2k2:: Angel Hernandez
tigger101023:: I think Kolb, like all pitchers, took some heat for not pitching around errors
depley:: well iit was LaRoche's fault last night, if he was 20 feet tall he would have caught that toss form Horacio :-)
clvclv:: Alright...gotta finish up some work, get my new ESPN phone activated, decide on which Pitcher to pick up, and get to the bar before the game starts...gonna be a full afternoon!!!
tigger101023:: other teams, Pierzynski seems to be up there
ChapelHillMatt:: why is it though tigger when laroche makes an error people get stuck on that and don't expect the pitcher to pitch around the mistake?
BaseballGM2k2:: he got McCan his change though
tigger101023:: I don't think it's all errors, Matt. I think it's errors, that (right or wrong) are considred mental or "lazy" mistakes
ChapelHillMatt:: well he was blamed for smoltz dropping the ball, that's basically what im referring to, he just gets bashed no matter what
Betemit7:: Bill ... Thoughts on Pope and his season so far?
tigger101023:: Well, I explained why I later thought that saying he threw the ball because Smoltz "wasn't slowing down" didn't make any sense
MikeAdams:: Fans like to guess how a player is in the clubhouse, but I think we're often wrong in that regard.
tigger101023:: probably Mike, but that won't stop many of us
TallahasseeBravo:: Bill.....I know youve probably been over this, but who becomes the heir appearent in the front office now? Is it Wren, or Roy Clark, or do we have another young genius one the way?
BillShanks:: Well he's been consistently mediocre Betemit7. He hit .211 in April and .211 in May. The power has been okay. He's on pace for about 12 home runs, which would be a career high - impressive in the Carolina League and in MB. Gotta get that averge up though. Van is still a decent prospect, with an excellent glove at third.
MikeAdams:: The Braves should keep Betemit around....the 3rd base prospects in the minors aren't exactly wowing me at this point...
BaseballGM2k2:: Cambell is future 3B in ATL...we don't need no stinking Pope
BillShanks:: Clark does not want to be a GM. As he says, "I'm allergic to starch," meaning he wants no part of a coat and tie in the front office. As of now, Wren is the man that could take JS's place. But JS is about to sign an extension and could be around through 2008 or 09.
depley:: cambell has looked good but thats A ball
BillShanks:: Cambell has been terrific this season.
tigger101023:: Campbell is old for his league, yes?
ChapelHillMatt:: Campbell should be ready when Chipper is about done shouldn't he?
BillShanks:: Eric had a great May - .319, 6 HR, 21 RBI
BaseballGM2k2:: so does Chipper finish his career in ATL guys?
MikeAdams:: Campbell's problem....well, I guess you can guess...walk rate...Nice power, though.
depley:: I don't see him going anywhere else
ChapelHillMatt:: we don't care about no stinkin walk rate
tigger101023:: I think so. I'm beginning to worry that Smoltz and Druw won't though.
BaseballGM2k2:: they will...Chipper will unless we opt not to bring him back and he goes to say LA or Texas
depley:: again I don't see Druw ever leaving and Smoltz, they will pick up his option
TallahasseeBravo:: Honestly, I dont think any of the three will go anywhere, barring an abomination by Liberty Media
MikeAdams:: Wow, Kala Kaaihue with 45 walks in 167 ABs. That's insane.
BillShanks:: What's all this "he's too old for this league stuff." Not jumping on you tigger, cause I read it all the time. I think it's bunk. Okay, if you're 24 and you're in Rome, unless you've been hurt, you might be too old. But I don't think we have anyone too old for where they are at - considering their circumstances. Again, not jumping on you tigger, but that comment stings me more than anything. It's like Ka'aihue. He just signed last year. He needs to be in the Sally League for a while. He'lll be up soon to MB.
BillShanks:: Mike... Campbell is only in Rome. Let him develop a bit.
BillShanks:: Who'd pitch to KK. He's huge!
ChapelHillMatt:: i think they all need to be demoted to danville so i can go watch them, just my opinion
tigger101023:: Liberty will want to make the asset more valuable for resale. I hope. Turning into the Marlins won't help
MikeAdams:: The must be treating Kala like Bonds.
TallahasseeBravo:: Has Liberty said anything to indicate they would cut payroll?
BillShanks:: He's hitting everything in sight!
tigger101023:: I understand Bill. But if part of what made Marte so great is doing it at such a young age then it stands to reason that you have to take it wtih a grain of salt as they age
tigger101023:: Nothing's absolute, only a consideration
ChapelHillMatt:: Liberty hasn't bought the team yet have they?
BaseballGM2k2:: all the good players need to fill out the Pearl roster... forget AAA
tigger101023:: Not yet
MikeAdams:: LIberty is apparently going to put the scouting department up for sale on QVC
BaseballGM2k2:: brb...got to go run to my work for a few mins... I'll leave the window open..
TallahasseeBravo:: And on that note, Bill can we fan the flames of the epoc "mystery player" a bit more? You said alot of things would have to happen. Could this deal happen under our current budget restraints?
060606:: Bill, how is Joey D. coming along??
BillShanks:: Joey Devine will spend a few more weeks in Orlando. They hope to ship him out to Richmond sometime in mid-late June.
depley:: is his back any better?
BillShanks:: Only think I'll say about the MP Tally is that with Dayton leaving, we might know sooner rather than later about whether the deal will get done. But other than that, I'm not going to comment.
depley:: you said Lerew was in town being looked at yesterday any word on that?
BillShanks:: Not sure depley about Devine or Lerew.
tigger101023:: oh yeah, he had a back problem too?
depley:: we are in need of a chatroom doctor to track all this lol
ChapelHillMatt:: ive given up on the MP, if it happens it happens, if not then we'll never know who it was
murph3:: Someone needs to IM me and tell me about this mystery player.
striker42:: So the MP is a Royal?
tigger101023:: you know as much as the rest of us, murph
murph3:: OK. I thought I missed something.
BillShanks:: Yeah if it doesn't happen, I'll tell you guys eventually..
depley:: bill any truth to th erumor Arod will be a member of the braves by the end of June?
murph3:: Bill, we love you. PLease tell us.
TallahasseeBravo:: Bill, do the players/coaches you hang with seem to be optimistic about the change in ownership?
MikeAdams:: It's Bonds. I know it.
BillShanks:: I think Dayton's departure more make the trade for the MP more possible, only because he won't be there to protect our minor leaguers from being traded for the MP.
murph3:: Good save Bill.
BillShanks:: No Tally.
BillShanks:: They are all worried about it. That's why if there's still a lot of uncertainty this winter and Dayton wants some of them to come to KC, they may go
striker42:: I think Liberty is just a TW clone. The situation will be the same.
depley:: bill do you think this ownership change influenced Dayton's decision?
ChapelHillMatt:: everyone say a little prayer for our organization, we don't need these people leaving us
BillShanks:: I think the ownership's uncertainty was a factor in Dayton leaving.
depley:: still this lebert deal stinks, it is NOT better for the team the city or the fans than local ownership would be
striker42:: Dang I gotta go to work. I'll have to call up JS and tell him not to make any trades until I get back.
TallahasseeBravo:: Youve gotta think, though, that there is as much chance of it being a net positive as a negative. Could it really be worse than TW and their sneaky back door Mets support?
murph3:: Good point Tally
TallahasseeBravo:: After all, the team being run from Denver has to be better than the team being run from Manhattan.
depley:: any lawyers? could we file a class action suit against TW for supporting the opposition?
BillShanks:: Let's hope so Tally. Everyone is hoping so. Just the unknown scares people a bit. Especially with this being billed as a stock deal where the Braves are just the property involved.
murph3:: Bill, did you know we were trading for Farnsworth and Cabrera?
depley:: and Arod
murph3:: And Pujols
TallahasseeBravo:: No, no, no
TallahasseeBravo:: Cabrera goes for ARod
murph3:: And WIllis
depley:: and Sandy Foufax's clone
TallahasseeBravo:: And Jessica Alba will be the new first base coach
depley:: anna benson will be the new batboy
bravesfan247:: guys I got to go line a field for a tball game - see ya'll later
murph3:: Jennifer Love Hewitt will be the watergirl.
TallahasseeBravo:: At any rate,surely JS wouldn't re-up for 3 years if he thought we would turn into the Marlins north
depley:: so who are actual decent closers that "might" be available?
TallahasseeBravo:: John Thompson
murph3:: OR pitchers who could close.
murph3:: I think Thomson could
tigger101023:: My boss (avid Yankees fa) asked if I wanted Farnsworth back
BillShanks:: Tell him NO
depley:: why would we want farnsworth after he turned us down
TallahasseeBravo:: Only if he comes with ARod
tigger101023:: Between Sosa and Thomson, I take Sosa as the closer. His starts have been fine, but if his walk rates are down...
depley:: ok I will take Farnsworth if you throw in Arod and I trade you lets see, Reitsma
murph3:: Bill do you think A-Rod will ever come here?
tigger101023:: I don't want Farnsy, it was only demonstrating the Yankees frustration
Betemit7:: Bill ... Even with Sosa and Ho pitching well the last two times out (I believe three for Sosa) do you think the plans are still to get James in the rotation by mid-June
tigger101023:: ARod will never come here
depley:: Rodney of detroit available? Nathan?
MikeAdams:: Didn't ARod almost come here? Man, that would have been nice.
depley:: yes but texas doubles the braves offer
BillShanks:: Yeah I would guess so Betemit. Then they could move either Thomson or Sosa to help out in the trash bend, I mean bullpen.
tigger101023:: yeah, but those were different days, Mike
TallahasseeBravo:: So Bill, are you ready to post your "I told you so, statheads may bite me" thread about HoRam, or should we wait for another great outing or two?
depley:: if james is being readies could that mean Thomson might go back on the trading block?
MikeAdams:: Maybe ARod wants out of NY...they're busting his *** there for no good reason.
tigger101023:: I would have no problems giving James the chance, but I have a hard time seeing Bobby demoting anyone right now
Betemit7:: Good to hear Bill.
depley:: is arod a SS any longer, if not what position does he play?
TallahasseeBravo:: I still think ARod is the MP.
BillShanks:: Well wait Tally for a while, at least. But you know Tally that I usually feel that they can bite me anyway!!!
BillShanks:: Since they love me sooooo much.
MikeAdams:: Looooooong way to go on HoRam....it all depends on the defense behind him....and where the balls are hit...
depley:: have to admit horam has looked goo in the 2 games back though mike
BillShanks:: That's right. But you have to be encouraged with the way he looks. He looks pretty good.
murph3:: Betemit, Sosa, LaRoche, Reitsma, and Langerhans for A-Rod and cash. Chipper to 1B.
TallahasseeBravo:: True mike, but he looks a whole lot better as a ground ball pitcher than a fly ball pitcher
060606:: Have you heard if we are talking to anybody about bullpen help-especially the Twins
MikeAdams:: That's for sure, Tally.
tigger101023:: HE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A hr PITCHER - THAT HELPS
depley:: what was it Bobby said, ever homer hit off him last year came off the cut fast ball or close to it anyway
MikeAdams:: Eliminating the HRs could turn HoRam into something of a Hampton-lite.
TallahasseeBravo:: OK Bill, the MP aside. You've got to believe that JS has been holding his cards for a big deal. If you wore suspenders, what would you be looking for? Starter, reliever, left fielder, or first baseman? You could make a case that all four could end up doing fine, but youve got to figure something is going to happen.
depley:: closer has to be the first part, its the weakest point on this team right now
BillShanks:: Reliever - all the way
TallahasseeBravo:: Front line closer, or just another solid bullpen arm?
TallahasseeBravo:: For the price of a Joe Nathan, you could probably get the MP
tigger101023:: At a cursory glance, Ray's periperhals look fine. Does he pass the stathead test, MIke?
murph3:: Marte and WIlson from Pitt
tigger101023:: hitter figuring him out later, aside
BillShanks:: Closer. I think JS will wait until the All Star Break and see who is available. Hopefully in six weeks we'll know more about the ownership situation. Then he can decide what we can afford to do and who we might deal away.
murph3:: I don't trust waiting for 6 more weeks.
MikeAdams:: Ray has done everything right so far...and yes, he passes the stathead test
tigger101023:: offense and starting pitching have been fine, so far
depley:: lol @ stat test
TallahasseeBravo:: Suppose Ray is 8-8 in save opportunities by the break. Do you still make a move?
tigger101023:: I would. Another arm never hurts back there
tigger101023:: Look at last year
TallahasseeBravo:: Im still leary of trading a Salty for a front line closer.
BillShanks:: I wouldn't be shocked if we got two new relievers. Maybe Foulke and Scott Williamson - something like that
BillShanks:: Me too.
BillShanks:: It better be one hell of a closer if we trade Salty
MikeAdams:: Ray's FIP is at 3.65, so he's not as good as his ERA, but solid
060606:: Bill, what are the chances Smoltz won't be pitching for the Braves next year??
murph3:: Would Salty alone net Nathan?
BillShanks:: I wouldn't trade Salty for Nathan, and the Twins wouldn't need him
TallahasseeBravo:: If the pen stabilizes in the next month, do you go get another power bat?
murph3:: True Mauer
MikeAdams:: FIP = Fielding Independent Pitching
BillShanks:: And that is?
MikeAdams:: ie an estimated ERA based on K/BB and HR ratios
Betemit7:: This season reminds me of the Karsay/Reed trade for Rocker a few years ago.
murph3:: If Shannon Stewart were healthy I would like him and Nathan in a trade.
BillShanks:: I hope Dayton knows what FIP is. His KC pitchers will probably need to improve on it.
MikeAdams:: The theory is that pitchers can control Strikeouts, Walks, and HRs but not balls put in play
BillShanks:: And the lower the FIP the better?
tigger101023:: when you look at his game log, he had 6 BB in 10IP in April and only 4 in 16IP in may.
tigger101023:: if he can keep up the lowered BB (not just a fluke) that FIP will look even better
tigger101023:: Let's not ask what Ho's FIP was yesterday
MikeAdams:: Yes. FIP is a good predictor of how well a pitcher will pitch going forward
BillShanks:: What's Ho's? Sosa's?
tigger101023:: those walk rates were Kenny Ray, BTW
MikeAdams:: HoRam is at 3.35
MikeAdams:: Sosa is at 5.33
depley:: sure you want to know that one?
MikeAdams:: Reitsma 4.74
tigger101023:: Sosa' problem is all those long balls
BillShanks:: So who has the best FIP on our team?
MikeAdams:: Paronto and Remlinger
MikeAdams:: But obviously Paronto is in limited innings
tigger101023:: well, I tried
BillShanks:: Hmm. So what does that tell us about Remlinger?
MikeAdams:: Paronto 3.00 Remlinger 3.06 McBride 3.20
MikeAdams:: Smoltz 3.33 HoRam 3.35 Hudson 3.50
TallahasseeBravo:: Bill, do you think we'll see any Royals/Braves deals in the next couple months? Surely Dayton knows a few Braves youngins he would like to have in KC
Betemit7:: He should only be pitching against RH's
MikeAdams:: Ray 3.65 Thomson 3.97....then it gets ugly
BillShanks:: Not sure Tally. I'm sure he would love to have some of our kids
BillShanks:: So Remlinger allowing these inherited baserunners to score have not been his fault?
tigger101023:: indeed, Betemit.. Early in the season, he was better against righties and good against both.
tigger101023:: Now, not so much
MikeAdams:: Well, I wouldn't say not his fault....but his ratios indicate he's pitching pretty well
MikeAdams:: But this is all limited sample sizes with the relievers...
depley:: what is remlingers rate of first batters faced
BillShanks:: Well i know they were Horacio's runners last night, but his job is to not allow those runners score.
depley:: how does remlinger fare on first batters
tigger101023:: don't know
BillShanks:: Which I think is a shame that the reliever can't statistically be held accountable for allowing those runners to score
murph3:: Remmy is being overused
MikeAdams:: Not ERA-wise, no, but there are other stats that pick up on Remlinger's failure
tigger101023:: although, bases loaded with no outs vs. 2 outs, the reliever is much less accountable with no outs. IMO
BillShanks:: Well he should have been taken out earlier in the week before Yates came in
depley:: bill I think they should have a half of a loss for every time they allow the other team to take the lead regardless of who put them on base
murph3:: Not ones that people like me understand
tigger101023:: they're not superman
BillShanks:: But who do you bring in?
BillShanks:: There is NO closer
MikeAdams:: That ball wasn't even hit that hard against Rem...a few feet over and I think Langerhans gets it
tigger101023:: I wonder if McBride should hve faced the side last night
MikeAdams:: meanwhile, the Braves were hitting the cover off the ball right at people all night
TallahasseeBravo:: true dat
Betemit7:: Agreed Tigger
tigger101023:: take your chances with the righty. Although it seemed that Green's prior lack of success vs. Remmy was a consideration
TallahasseeBravo:: it just wasnt the Braves night
BillShanks:: McBride should be our top lefty (vs. lefty) reliever - not Rem
TallahasseeBravo:: Still, those things have a way of coming back around
murph3:: Rem gets hit hard by lefties doesn't he?
depley:: historically remlinger has been better against rh batters
tigger101023:: But I have definitely jumped on the Ray for closer bandwagon - hope they're room
bp4de:: Hey Bill i love Bobby Cox to death,but is he the only one that doesnt see the foolish moves he is making with the bullpen lately?
MikeAdams:: He hasn't been getting hit hard this year....last year everyone under the sun hit him hard, lefty or righty
MSBraves27:: jump on tigger, i'm driving lol
depley:: tigger, the real problem is how can you not jump on that wagon, who else other than McBride is out there to take the job?
MikeAdams:: Cox is trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle....unfortunately, he's missing several pieces
tigger101023:: I thinkRem's been fine, although murph may have a point
TallahasseeBravo:: Its hard for a move to be foolish when there is no real alternative
murph3:: I love Remmy, but he was in a bad situation last night.
bp4de:: i just dont see bringing in remmy there,and then the fiasco with Reitsma
BillShanks:: He's late to the party bp4de!
tigger101023:: I was a the game, and when the radio said that Paronto, Remmy and Reits were warming up (whicle McBride was out there), I about fell over
depley:: I didn't see the need for 3 pitchers for 3 batters in that inning, once there was 2 outs just let the sinker ball Paronta go after Green
tigger101023:: I wonder if an easier AB keeps McBride out there? Or was Paronto set in stone?
TallahasseeBravo:: The best possible scenario, given the injuries, was for Retisma to develop into a closer. Bobby had to be a little more patient, given the lack of real alternatives.
TallahasseeBravo:: If Boyer and Devine are healthy, we aren't having this discussion.
tigger101023:: I thought the smae thing, depley. Oh well
depley:: did you see how pumped up the dugout was after McBride and Paronto? only to be let down by Remlinger
bp4de:: i dont mean to jump on frenchy here either but why doesnt he get a day off every now and then?
tigger101023:: although in all fairness, Bobby is trying to play the percentages. maybe just not all of them
BaseballGM2k2:: Foulke and Williams sounds good to me
murph3:: I want Marte from Pitt
TallahasseeBravo:: James into the rotation, Thompson closing
BillShanks:: Guys I'm going to have to go lay down for a while. Still not feeling terrific today. Again, sorry I was late coming in. I'll check back in later. Keep on chatting and talking Braves' Baseball
depley:: later bill
TallahasseeBravo:: later Bill
tigger101023:: bye. get some sleep
murph3:: Get better Bill!!
BaseballGM2k2:: later bill
depley:: man these days are draggin out, this next month is going to be torture
Betemit7:: later bil
BaseballGM2k2:: if we knew that Davies would come bakc we could probally swap Thomson for Foulke
depley:: maybe james takes over
BaseballGM2k2:: Boston needs the extra SP
murph3:: Thomson for Foulke? I would do it.
tigger101023:: how has Foulke looked this year?
tigger101023:: With Papelbon closing, I didn't know his role
BaseballGM2k2:: solid tigger
tigger101023:: he makes a fair bit, too. How much left on that contract?
depley:: not crazy about the 4.34 era but only 3bb vs 21k
BaseballGM2k2:: he'd take up about 4 or 5 mill of our free Budget at the deadline
BaseballGM2k2:: well he does pitch in the AL so era's will be al ittle higher at times..esp pitching in the AL East\
depley:: his 06 salary is 7.75m
tigger101023:: we could hope that the NL hitters not knowing him is Advantage - Atlanta
tigger101023:: is his a FA next year?
BaseballGM2k2:: that's why I said Thomson for him
bellbell:: what is up with josh burrus?
tigger101023:: Ah. I just worry that we have no starter depth if anything happens. Davies is hurt, Sosa and Ho could implode, James is unproven
BaseballGM2k2:: Prado,Barry for Williamson and Thomson for Keith Foulke
tigger101023:: and Lerew is hurt and very up and down this year. Who can we plug in with another injury?
BaseballGM2k2:: actually how about this
BaseballGM2k2:: Prado,Barry for Williamson is a lock to happen imo
tigger101023:: Because the Cubs need more 2B? DIdn't they just trade one?
BaseballGM2k2:: Foulke for Lerew,?
tigger101023:: or is Williamson elsewhere?
BaseballGM2k2:: Cubs don't have a good 2b in minors except in A ball
tigger101023:: It would take more than Lerew the way he's pitching. Moeny is no object to the Red Sox, right?
tigger101023:: then again, maybe not. I guess they don't *need* Foulke
BaseballGM2k2:: Lerew, Retisma for him
tigger101023:: I'll be shocked if we can get a bag of balls for him right now. Talk about selling low
BaseballGM2k2:: true lol
tigger101023:: well, I ought to get back to work. Been goofing off for too long now
BaseballGM2k2:: lol heard that
murph3:: Prado, Berry, and Lerew for Maddux, Williamson and cash.........Thomson for Foulke.
BaseballGM2k2:: Sounds good to me Murph
BaseballGM2k2:: then Maddux could call it a career and end it where he should...
BaseballGM2k2:: James replaces Remy, Sosa to pen when Davies comes back...
mlhowa03:: davies wasn't doing too hot this year
RobertJSublett:: mr shanks, new to premium content, not new to the site
RobertJSublett:: my primary worry about the club this year is i really don't want to see the club get desperate and trade the future for the present
murph3:: Sublett- I don't think JS will do that.
RobertJSublett:: it doesn't sound like something he would do, but as much as i hate to say it......unless something big is done we are probably sitting home this oct.
RobertJSublett:: any new info on the sale?
BaseballGM2k2:: I bought the team
BaseballGM2k2:: I wish
murph3:: We are deep enough with talent in the farm to make moves.
RobertJSublett:: me too 2k2 lol
RobertJSublett:: this team is just so frustrating,they run so hot and cold
BaseballGM2k2:: i found out some bad news for me today
BaseballGM2k2:: If I get to make it out to the game on the 17th...I could possibly have to See Horacio Ramirez start for the 4th Time(out of 9 Live GameS)
BaseballGM2k2:: 10 games I should say
RobertJSublett:: HoRam looks decent man
BaseballGM2k2:: I know...but I'd prefer to see Thomson,Sosa,Smoltz...someone I have't seen in person
BaseballGM2k2:: Seen Smoltz when he was a closer...but not as a starter
murph3:: If you are lucky Reitsma will pitch in that game as well.
RobertJSublett:: never been to a live game, but i covered them for BravesBeat.com back in the day
RobertJSublett:: satellite does wonders
BaseballGM2k2:: Retisma blew the only lose I've seen live
BaseballGM2k2:: 2 yrs ago in the 2nd game of the 3 game set vs kc that we lost 10-4
BaseballGM2k2:: so he even blows games in the setup role
BaseballGM2k2:: check that out murph
BaseballGM2k2:: if the Big 3 should all go into the HOF...what do you guys think of all 3 going in in the same yr
BaseballGM2k2:: i'm out later guys
BoneThrower:: you still in here, Bill?
murph3:: Awesome. I like it.
murph3:: It kept me from having to type it.
BoneThrower:: had to leave for awhile, but kept the chat up so I could follow along. Just was reading your picks about who the Braves will draft and noticed in the 3rd you had Tony Watson selected. You're talking about the LHP from Nebraska, right?
BaseballGM2k2:: Bill's out but in
BaseballGM2k2:: out for real now later