Skipjacks wrote: If it was going to a reliever I'd think Rodney from Tampa would get better billing. I mean 51 saves is amazing but an 0.61 ERA going into game 162 is just disgusting.
You don't think the fact that JOHNSON is a BIG reason the O's are in the playoffs after 15 dismal seasons and RODNEY's RAYS are on the outside looking in might factor into a decision between the two?
Of course Johnson is a huge factor in the O's being where they are.
But Rodney has 47 saves to Johnson's 51, so they are not exactly worlds apart.
Rodney has an 0.61 ERA in 74 innings vs Johnson's 2.41 ERA in 68 innings. That's almost 4 times better.
I love what Johnson has done for the Orioles too and I don't think they'd be where they are without him. He's a HUGE part of this club and deserves a ton of credit and admiration for his work this year. If you handed me a Jim Johnson jersey I'd wear it proudly!
But Rodney's been a tad better. He's just been on a team that's a tad worse and as such has handed him fewer save opportunities than the Orioles handed Johnson.
Also, Rodney's got a way awesome beard going. But, he can't wear a hat properly so points are deducted.
DiscoJamal wrote: Not a fan of relievers getting the CY Young - I do think JJ should have been most valuable oriole though
I'm with you there. I love Adam Jones. He's my favorite player on the team by a long shot. But he went through slumps this year. Jim Johnson did not. (Assuming we don't call 2 bad games scattered over a season a 'slump')
A reliever would have to be absolutely dominant and every starter candidate would have to have just okay years to justify a starter winning the Cy Young. Starters pitch so many more innings and therefore have a far greater impact on games than closers. Saves are a nice stat, but not all saves are created equal, either (though to be fair to JJ, he does have a lot of one-run saves this year.).
Also, the argument of one guy deserves an award because his team made the playoffs is weird. People are making that in the MVP race. I'm not saying Cabrera shouldn't get it over Trout, but he shouldn't get it because the Tigers make the playoffs. The Tigers actually will finish with a WORSE record than the Angels. This despite the Angels playing all their extra division games against 2 of the best 4 AL teams (A's and Rangers) and a mediocre team (Mariners). Meanwhile the Tigers played their division games against 2 awful teams (Twins and Indians), one mediocre team (Royals), and a good team that collapsed (White Sox). And the Angels STILL have a better record than the Tigers, who are only making the playoffs because their division stinks.
I think it will either be Price or Verlander, while I certainly think Johnson deserves consideration and agree that he should have gotten the Orioles MVP award. The O's had at least three players worthy of the award in Johnson, Jones and Wieters IMHO.
It's not a bad argument, but he's the Rolaids Relief Man of the Year. That's, somewhat sadly, the award for these stars. In the 70's it was Fireman of the Year! One could argue, tho, that with 29-9 in one run games and he being the guy that kept it that way in those 29--- probably, I haven't checked the stats if he was the save earner in ALL 29, plus 21 more saves in, somewhat less dire circumstances, that he should be considered. If you count the 29 as wins, which I know you can't, he's an ace of monumental status.
The question is: would any of the top candidates been able to do what he did as our closer? Maybe... It's one of those baseball questions we'll never know. I'd be shocked if he won the Cy Young.
I'd like to see JJ get some votes, but I too would have to vote for Rodney over him in the reliever category.
And I would take an innings eating starter with a good record over a dominant reliever almost every time. The key is innings - anything around 225 means you are doing your job.
Look how well Jake pitched in the pen for the O's after coming back up, or how well David Hernandez did for Arizona last year. They knew they might be in for two innings max, one inning more normally, so just air it out. But as starters, they found out that you can't do it. You have to be a more complete pitcher as a starter, and ice water in the veins to be a reliever...
I'm thinking it's going to be Weaver. I'm not certain, but I don't recall Weaver dropping a game when that club needed him in a big series. Both Verlander and Price lost a big game in August and September. Maybe I'm mistaken, tho. I wouldn't be surprised with any one of them winning.
I also don't really agree with Relievers winning the Cy Young... unless the starting pitchers in a year are marginal. I don't think that's the case this year. You have some starting guys that really pitched well.
If Mariano has never won a Cy Young, its hard for me to give it any other reliever (although I guess it has happened) Rodney was unreal this year...an ERA of 0.60 is hard to ignore, saves aside. JJ would have had an ERA near 1.00, if you subtract his two bad outings (and only one of those was a blown save) 51 saves is a nice stat but more importantly, as was mentioned he was instrumental in the O's setting a record for one run win percentage. He was my O's MVP---consistent all season long. I think Price gets it. And if not it will be because Rodney will take votes away. Wright would win it then. I don't think Verlander is in the mix this season.
FWIW--Rodney pitched 6 more innings than JJ (74.2 to 68.2) Rodney gave up 5 ER's all season and none in his last 25 appearances. He averaged about a strikeout an inning. His ERA was microscopic 0.60. JJ didn't strike out as many by quite a margain. He is more of a pitch to contact pitcher. If you remove those two terrible outings in July where he allowed 11 ER's in 2/3 of an inning, his ERA would be 1.06...having allowed only 8 ER's in all his other outings. He too finished with a long streak of scoreless outings. JJ allowed 3 HR's; Rodney 2. Both pitched under the pressure of a pennant chase. Both faced real tough AL East competition frequently. JJ had 3 more saves.
I think you could argue that both had very similar successful seasons. And thats one reason why I don't think either would (or should) get the Cy Young. While the 0.60 ERA is quite a stat, over the course of 162 games where each pitcher appeared in around 40% of his teams games, give or take---there isn't much difference between allowing 5 ER's and 8 ER's. Both men were spectacular. While I know you can't just eliminate those two terrible outings by JJ--they were clearly outliers and one of them was totally unnecessary (the Twins game).
insagt1 wrote: If Mariano has never won a Cy Young, its hard for me to give it any other reliever (although I guess it has happened) Rodney was unreal this year...an ERA of 0.60 is hard to ignore, saves aside. JJ would have had an ERA near 1.00, if you subtract his two bad outings (and only one of those was a blown save) 51 saves is a nice stat but more importantly, as was mentioned he was instrumental in the O's setting a record for one run win percentage. He was my O's MVP---consistent all season long. I think Price gets it. And if not it will be because Rodney will take votes away. Wright would win it then. I don't think Verlander is in the mix this season.
Jered Weaver got a good shot at it too, as he is the only 20 game winner besides Price. Not getting in the playoffs may hurt both but i doubt it.
I have revisited Verlanders season. It was surprisingly excellent given that the W-L record didn't approach last years gaudy numbers. But he pitched a ton of innings; logged a ton of 'k's had an excellent WHIP and ERA and overall did an outstanding job. He'll get votes. 20 game winners have been ignored before in Cy Young voting.