WezMailBlog: Nathan, Iglesias, Development

No, yes, and they wouldn’t do that. Those are the answers to this week’s WezMailBlog questions. Now what are the questions you ask? Read on.

1. Nathan the Closer on Memorial Day?

There’s no way of beating around the bush when we say that 2014 was a disappointing season for Joe Nathan, who was handed a two-year $20 million contract prior to the season and struggled out of the gate, and then had more ups-and-downs as the season wore on. Nathan’s strikeout rate fell, his walk rate in particular jumped, and his fastball velocity continued to decline.

Observers hoped that with an off-season to get in shape, and refine his mechanics, Nathan would enter 2015 looking refreshed and pitching more like he did for the Rangers in 2013. But even with four scoreless appearances (sandwiched around one really bad one), there are significant underlying concerns.

His fastball velocity is down yet again – he’s not even reaching 90 MPH on the radar gun, with his fastball regularly in the ~88 MPH range. That’s what his slider used to be when in his heyday with the Twins. And therein becomes the larger issue – Nathan was a hard-throwing fastball/slider reliever. He doesn’t have that anymore. So he’s tried to adopt using a two seam fastball, he’s trying out a changeup this year, and he’s even got a curveball.

Basically, a reliever that has made his living on two go-to pitches doesn’t have those two pitches anymore, and so he’s trying to transform himself into something of a junk baller, mixing in a half dozen pitches in an attempt to keep hitters off-balance and get outs.

To add to the concerns over his stuff on the mound, Nathan is already running into PR snafus, causing a stir by stating he didn’t care about the fans and that they’re not a part of his life. It’s since been clarified, but after a year in when he was already at odds with fans, threw his rookie third baseman under the bus, and made an inappropriate gesture after a chorus of boos, 2015 isn’t getting off to a better start.

The Tigers really want Nathan to work out. They have ten million reasons why, in fact. But they also want to win a World Series, and it seems increasingly unlikely that they’ll be able to do that with Nathan in the back of the ‘pen. With an encouraging past couple weeks from Bruce Rondon, plus hopefully having Joakim Soria back very soon, the Tigers will have alternatives to Nathan.

So, with a player’s skill level declining, being at odds with the fans, and alternatives already on the roster, I don’t think Nathan will be closing for the Tigers come the end of May.

2. Iglesias’s Health

After getting a clean bill of health to start the season, it seems like Jose Iglesias and his shins might be cursed. Just over a week ago, Iglesias suffered a shin contusion sliding late into second base and making contact with his shin. The very next day, as luck would have it, he took a line drive off his shin again, for which the odds of those two things happening have to be astronomical for any player, let alone one coming off an entire season lost due to stress fractures in his shins.

But here’s the good news. Neither created a significant setback. Iglesias has been in the lineup, playing in back-to-back games after both of those incidents. The early returns are that Iglesias’s shins are holding up just fine.

Outside of his shins, Iglesias has always been on the slender side, and there has always been some concern about his ability to stay healthy throughout an entire season. But he played in over 140 games in 2013, and surpassed the 100 game mark in each of the prior two years, despite being shuttled between Triple-A and the big leagues multiple times.

On the other hand, he did have a DL stint in 2012 with Pawtucket with lower back soreness and spent a couple of weeks on the DL in 2011 with Pawtucket as well for an undocumented injury. So, there’s some history to back up his durability concerns.

So, we’ve got a player coming off a serious overuse injury, with a bit of history of wear and tear injuries in his early career. But so far, the shins look good, and that’s an encouraging sign after how last spring started out.

There’s absolutely some risk there, and I wouldn’t take this bet to the bank, but I think Iglesias is still healthy when the All-Star break rolls around.

3. Toledo’s Rotation

First off, at the moment, I agree with your initial projection for the first four spots in the rotation. I think Drew VerHagen, Kyle Lobstein, Buck Farmer and Kyle Ryan will all find themselves in the Toledo rotation to start the season. There’s a chance you could see someone like Ryan end up in the bullpen, if the Tigers are thinking seriously about using him in relief in Detroit this year and want him to refine his repertoire and approach for that. But, Ryan had never pitched above A-ball last year, so getting more innings would certainly not be a bad thing for his development.

That being said, guys like Derek Hankins, Thad Weber and Tim Melville could come into play in that rotation as well. At least one of them will likely find a spot there, and maybe more.

When doing roster projections, it’s easy to start going down the list of teams in descending order (from the big league club to Triple-A on down) and fit guys in as you see fit. It’s a reasonable and logical approach. But, once you pass the big league level, it doesn’t necessarily align with the way the Tigers will do it.

The organization wants to ensure they get the priority guys slotted in first, and then the next group, and ultimately they fill in the rest of the roster based on wherever there’s a need and who they have available.

So instead of focusing on Triple-A right after the big league club, think of it like this. Start with the most important prospect(s) in the system – you can reference the TigsTown Top Ten (and then top 50). Based on development, growth, etc., ask yourself, where is the ideal place for this player? Then put them there. And then do the same with the next group.

Eventually, you’ll start running low on prospects and start needing to fill in gaps. Maybe the Erie infield is lacking. Maybe the West Michigan offense could use a big bat in it. That all gets figured out toward the end.

But if the Tigers wanted Ryan in the rotation, they wouldn’t let the presence of a number of minor league veteran starting pitchers inhibit that. They’d put Ryan in the rotation, as a priority guy, and look to put the minor league vets someplace else. The development staff will always do whatever it can to ensure the guys that need to face a certain level of competition or get the proper experience get it.


Tigs Town Top Stories

\r\n\r\n\r\n

There’s no way of beating around the bush when we say that 2014 was a disappointing season for Joe Nathan, who was handed a two-year $20 million contract prior to the season and struggled out of the gate, and then had more ups-and-downs as the season wore on. Nathan’s strikeout rate fell, his walk rate in particular jumped, and his fastball velocity continued to decline.

\r\n\r\n

Observers hoped that with an off-season to get in shape, and refine his mechanics, Nathan would enter 2015 looking refreshed and pitching more like he did for the Rangers in 2013. But even with four scoreless appearances (sandwiched around one really bad one), there are significant underlying concerns.

\r\n\r\n

His fastball velocity is down yet again – he’s not even reaching 90 MPH on the radar gun, with his fastball regularly in the ~88 MPH range. That’s what his slider used to be when in his heyday with the Twins. And therein becomes the larger issue – Nathan was a hard-throwing fastball/slider reliever. He doesn’t have that anymore. So he’s tried to adopt using a two seam fastball, he’s trying out a changeup this year, and he’s even got a curveball.

\r\n\r\n

Basically, a reliever that has made his living on two go-to pitches doesn’t have those two pitches anymore, and so he’s trying to transform himself into something of a junk baller, mixing in a half dozen pitches in an attempt to keep hitters off-balance and get outs.

\r\n\r\n

To add to the concerns over his stuff on the mound, Nathan is already running into PR snafus, causing a stir by stating he didn’t care about the fans and that they’re not a part of his life. It’s since been clarified, but after a year in when he was already at odds with fans, threw his rookie third baseman under the bus, and made an inappropriate gesture after a chorus of boos, 2015 isn’t getting off to a better start.

\r\n\r\n

The Tigers really want Nathan to work out. They have ten million reasons why, in fact. But they also want to win a World Series, and it seems increasingly unlikely that they’ll be able to do that with Nathan in the back of the ‘pen. With an encouraging past couple weeks from Bruce Rondon, plus hopefully having Joakim Soria back very soon, the Tigers will have alternatives to Nathan.

\r\n\r\n

So, with a player’s skill level declining, being at odds with the fans, and alternatives already on the roster, I don’t think Nathan will be closing for the Tigers come the end of May.

\r\n\r\n\r\n

2. Iglesias’s Health

\r\n\r\n

@TigsTown is Iglesias still healthy at the All Star break?

— Chip (@cvandlen) March 14, 2015
\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

After getting a clean bill of health to start the season, it seems like Jose Iglesias and his shins might be cursed. Just over a week ago, Iglesias suffered a shin contusion sliding late into second base and making contact with his shin. The very next day, as luck would have it, he took a line drive off his shin again, for which the odds of those two things happening have to be astronomical for any player, let alone one coming off an entire season lost due to stress fractures in his shins.

\r\n\r\n

But here’s the good news. Neither created a significant setback. Iglesias has been in the lineup, playing in back-to-back games after both of those incidents. The early returns are that Iglesias’s shins are holding up just fine.

\r\n\r\n

Outside of his shins, Iglesias has always been on the slender side, and there has always been some concern about his ability to stay healthy throughout an entire season. But he played in over 140 games in 2013, and surpassed the 100 game mark in each of the prior two years, despite being shuttled between Triple-A and the big leagues multiple times. \r\n\r\n

On the other hand, he did have a DL stint in 2012 with Pawtucket with lower back soreness and spent a couple of weeks on the DL in 2011 with Pawtucket as well for an undocumented injury. So, there’s some history to back up his durability concerns.

\r\n\r\n

So, we’ve got a player coming off a serious overuse injury, with a bit of history of wear and tear injuries in his early career. But so far, the shins look good, and that’s an encouraging sign after how last spring started out.

\r\n\r\n

There’s absolutely some risk there, and I wouldn’t take this bet to the bank, but I think Iglesias is still healthy when the All-Star break rolls around.

\r\n\r\n

3. Toledo’s Rotation

\r\n\r\n

@TigsTown CanTig and i have predicted lineups.SP 4 Toledo were farmer,Ryan,Lobstein verhagen.but with Weber,Hankins etc,does it hurt growth?

— Lee Miller (@blazeis9plus1) March 14, 2015
\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

First off, at the moment, I agree with your initial projection for the first four spots in the rotation. I think Drew VerHagen, Kyle Lobstein, Buck Farmer and Kyle Ryan will all find themselves in the Toledo rotation to start the season. There’s a chance you could see someone like Ryan end up in the bullpen, if the Tigers are thinking seriously about using him in relief in Detroit this year and want him to refine his repertoire and approach for that. But, Ryan had never pitched above A-ball last year, so getting more innings would certainly not be a bad thing for his development.

\r\n\r\n

That being said, guys like Derek Hankins, Thad Weber and Tim Melville could come into play in that rotation as well. At least one of them will likely find a spot there, and maybe more.

\r\n\r\n

When doing roster projections, it’s easy to start going down the list of teams in descending order (from the big league club to Triple-A on down) and fit guys in as you see fit. It’s a reasonable and logical approach. But, once you pass the big league level, it doesn’t necessarily align with the way the Tigers will do it.

\r\n\r\n

The organization wants to ensure they get the priority guys slotted in first, and then the next group, and ultimately they fill in the rest of the roster based on wherever there’s a need and who they have available.

\r\n\r\n

So instead of focusing on Triple-A right after the big league club, think of it like this. Start with the most important prospect(s) in the system – you can reference the TigsTown Top Ten (and then top 50). Based on development, growth, etc., ask yourself, where is the ideal place for this player? Then put them there. And then do the same with the next group.

\r\n\r\n

Eventually, you’ll start running low on prospects and start needing to fill in gaps. Maybe the Erie infield is lacking. Maybe the West Michigan offense could use a big bat in it. That all gets figured out toward the end.

\r\n\r\n

But if the Tigers wanted Ryan in the rotation, they wouldn’t let the presence of a number of minor league veteran starting pitchers inhibit that. They’d put Ryan in the rotation, as a priority guy, and look to put the minor league vets someplace else. The development staff will always do whatever it can to ensure the guys that need to face a certain level of competition or get the proper experience get it.

\r\n","mobileBody":"

@TigsTown Is Joe Nathan still the Tigers closer come Memorial Day?

— Curtis (@Curtos07) March 14, 2015

There’s no way of beating around the bush when we say that 2014 was a disappointing season for Joe Nathan, who was handed a two-year $20 million contract prior to the season and struggled out of the gate, and then had more ups-and-downs as the season wore on. Nathan’s strikeout rate fell, his walk rate in particular jumped, and his fastball velocity continued to decline.

Observers hoped that with an off-season to get in shape, and refine his mechanics, Nathan would enter 2015 looking refreshed and pitching more like he did for the Rangers in 2013. But even with four scoreless appearances (sandwiched around one really bad one), there are significant underlying concerns.

His fastball velocity is down yet again – he’s not even reaching 90 MPH on the radar gun, with his fastball regularly in the ~88 MPH range. That’s what his slider used to be when in his heyday with the Twins. And therein becomes the larger issue – Nathan was a hard-throwing fastball/slider reliever. He doesn’t have that anymore. So he’s tried to adopt using a two seam fastball, he’s trying out a changeup this year, and he’s even got a curveball.

Basically, a reliever that has made his living on two go-to pitches doesn’t have those two pitches anymore, and so he’s trying to transform himself into something of a junk baller, mixing in a half dozen pitches in an attempt to keep hitters off-balance and get outs.

To add to the concerns over his stuff on the mound, Nathan is already running into PR snafus, causing a stir by stating he didn’t care about the fans and that they’re not a part of his life. It’s since been clarified, but after a year in when he was already at odds with fans, threw his rookie third baseman under the bus, and made an inappropriate gesture after a chorus of boos, 2015 isn’t getting off to a better start.

The Tigers really want Nathan to work out. They have ten million reasons why, in fact. But they also want to win a World Series, and it seems increasingly unlikely that they’ll be able to do that with Nathan in the back of the ‘pen. With an encouraging past couple weeks from Bruce Rondon, plus hopefully having Joakim Soria back very soon, the Tigers will have alternatives to Nathan.

So, with a player’s skill level declining, being at odds with the fans, and alternatives already on the roster, I don’t think Nathan will be closing for the Tigers come the end of May.

@TigsTown is Iglesias still healthy at the All Star break?

— Chip (@cvandlen) March 14, 2015

After getting a clean bill of health to start the season, it seems like Jose Iglesias and his shins might be cursed. Just over a week ago, Iglesias suffered a shin contusion sliding late into second base and making contact with his shin. The very next day, as luck would have it, he took a line drive off his shin again, for which the odds of those two things happening have to be astronomical for any player, let alone one coming off an entire season lost due to stress fractures in his shins.

But here’s the good news. Neither created a significant setback. Iglesias has been in the lineup, playing in back-to-back games after both of those incidents. The early returns are that Iglesias’s shins are holding up just fine.

Outside of his shins, Iglesias has always been on the slender side, and there has always been some concern about his ability to stay healthy throughout an entire season. But he played in over 140 games in 2013, and surpassed the 100 game mark in each of the prior two years, despite being shuttled between Triple-A and the big leagues multiple times.

On the other hand, he did have a DL stint in 2012 with Pawtucket with lower back soreness and spent a couple of weeks on the DL in 2011 with Pawtucket as well for an undocumented injury. So, there’s some history to back up his durability concerns.

So, we’ve got a player coming off a serious overuse injury, with a bit of history of wear and tear injuries in his early career. But so far, the shins look good, and that’s an encouraging sign after how last spring started out.

There’s absolutely some risk there, and I wouldn’t take this bet to the bank, but I think Iglesias is still healthy when the All-Star break rolls around.

@TigsTown CanTig and i have predicted lineups.SP 4 Toledo were farmer,Ryan,Lobstein verhagen.but with Weber,Hankins etc,does it hurt growth?

— Lee Miller (@blazeis9plus1) March 14, 2015

First off, at the moment, I agree with your initial projection for the first four spots in the rotation. I think Drew VerHagen, Kyle Lobstein, Buck Farmer and Kyle Ryan will all find themselves in the Toledo rotation to start the season. There’s a chance you could see someone like Ryan end up in the bullpen, if the Tigers are thinking seriously about using him in relief in Detroit this year and want him to refine his repertoire and approach for that. But, Ryan had never pitched above A-ball last year, so getting more innings would certainly not be a bad thing for his development.

That being said, guys like Derek Hankins, Thad Weber and Tim Melville could come into play in that rotation as well. At least one of them will likely find a spot there, and maybe more.

When doing roster projections, it’s easy to start going down the list of teams in descending order (from the big league club to Triple-A on down) and fit guys in as you see fit. It’s a reasonable and logical approach. But, once you pass the big league level, it doesn’t necessarily align with the way the Tigers will do it.

The organization wants to ensure they get the priority guys slotted in first, and then the next group, and ultimately they fill in the rest of the roster based on wherever there’s a need and who they have available.

So instead of focusing on Triple-A right after the big league club, think of it like this. Start with the most important prospect(s) in the system – you can reference the TigsTown Top Ten (and then top 50). Based on development, growth, etc., ask yourself, where is the ideal place for this player? Then put them there. And then do the same with the next group.

Eventually, you’ll start running low on prospects and start needing to fill in gaps. Maybe the Erie infield is lacking. Maybe the West Michigan offense could use a big bat in it. That all gets figured out toward the end.

But if the Tigers wanted Ryan in the rotation, they wouldn’t let the presence of a number of minor league veteran starting pitchers inhibit that. They’d put Ryan in the rotation, as a priority guy, and look to put the minor league vets someplace else. The development staff will always do whatever it can to ensure the guys that need to face a certain level of competition or get the proper experience get it.

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