Browns Uncensored Chat Transcript

Dave Carducci spends every day with the Browns and, as he says, it's not a real happy place to be these days. Dave and Browns fans in the chat room looked for hope under the rocks last night in Browns Uncensored chat. I guess if you want sunshine blown up your muzzle, there are places that will do that for you, but here we try to give our thoughts honestly, which is exactly what Dave Carducci did in chat Thursday night...

Aqib I was on teh verge of going to and buying a #10 jersey with
Aqib ""PRETENDER"" on the back
redright Do you think Butch has had a change of mind? Heart? lost his gut feeling?
revRecluse hey dave
DavidCarducci I actually still believe Holcomb may be the starter next year. I think he's of the opinion that it doesn't really matter who is at quarterback right now. I also have a feeling Holcomb will be back at quarterback at some point on Sunday.
petegarcia Dave: What would the cap implications be for restructuring Gerard Warren's contract....that thing is gonna kill us?
DavidCarducci Pete, it's going to kill us down the road too by deferring a bunch of money
redright Got any really bad news after that Dave?
ramllov Dave, Warren is a concern, does he get the upgraded money based on current results or year end results?
DavidCarducci They are in a lot of $$$ problems from what I see. $2 mil under now, with a $1.5 million option on Daylon to keep him. That's actually going to be a tough decision. There is going to be some money coming off, obviously with some upcoming moves
revRecluse Really Dave? Does Butch have that little confidence in Couch that he'd willingly yank him again even after Holcomb's meltdown Monday?
DavidCarducci revRecluse, actually, my gut feeling of Holcomb coming in Sunday is that I don't expect Couch to last 4Q behind that line. I think Davis has shown over and over, though, that he has very little confidence in Couch.
redright So, are we saying that this year of experiment was inconclusive and we are going to get another year of Arians and Holcomb?
DavidCarducci Redright, I hear mixed messages regarding Arians. But the people I believe the most lead me to believe that both will be back.
DavidCarducci By the way, Davis squashed the Nebraska rumors today. Of course, he denied coming to Cleveland, too
ramllov Dave do you see any silver lining to this season with the rookies and young players getting additional playing time?
DavidCarducci Ram, I see very little silver lining. I don't think this team has very much talent. Too many draft picks ... like Chaun and Pontbriand, where Davis is trying to show he knows more than anybody else
petegarcia Dave I am firm believer that Couch and Holcomb both will suck until we get an O-Coord....In this league I honestly believe the O-Coord. is the 3rd or 4th most important position on the team....Favre hasn't won anything since Holmgren left...Kosar was an average player without Lindy Infante....please tell me that Arains bags are packed.....the dude is a bum!
DavidCarducci PeteGarcia, I don't disagree with you. You are probably right. It's not the quarterbacks so much as it is the system
ramllov Any QB for the Browns is going to be a failed program until they get a top offensive line or at least a very good one. Look at NY Giants, they lost their QB, due to no offensive line.
DavidCarducci Ram, you are right, but there is very little reason to have faith that they will upgrade that line. Not while you continue to hear how much they want to develop Beasley. The approach shouldn't be to try to find lightning in a bottle with undrafted OL and converted DL. It should be to draft and possibly sign quality linemen, then hope you get lucky with a guy like a Beasley rather than count on it.
BryanK Are we really one of the 5 worst teams in the league?
DavidCarducci BryanK, I think so
DavidCarducci I picked 6-10 for this year, and even though that's still a possiblity, this team is far worse than I thought, and the draft picks of the last three years on the whole are not impressive. The entire team is made up of either A) young players whose potential is unknown and not yet reached, B) marginal NFL players, and C) busts
brehon Dave - on the subjec of converting players isn't that what Butch said he is trying to do at FB with one of the new pickups
DavidCarducci Brehon, that's right. It's a problem in my opinion. Butch thinks they can avoid making investments in some positions, hoping to get lucky with by taking a chance on a developmental type or by playing someone in a dual role or out of position, like Sanders at TE, H-back and FB
redright Unintentionally pejorative but; If Holcomb stays and Holcomb has only studied the Arians system and to my eye still doesn't get it, how can Butch let Arians go? Further: If Arians does go, how can Butch keep a failing backup QB like Holcomb?
DavidCarducci Redright, those are good questions. Unfortunately, around here, things don't always make a whole lot of sense
revRecluse Dave, does Courtney Brown have the will to come back from this latest injury, or will he call it quits?
DavidCarducci revRecluse, very good question. Unfortunately, we probably know less about Courtney than anyone because he stays completely clear of the media. It's hard to know what he is thinking. At this point, four years in with four years of injuries, I don't see how the Browns can come in to another year thinking they can count on him. He just can't stay on the field
redright Dave can anyone tell Butch that he hasn't found guys that can play one position and shouldn't try to find guys that can play 3 until he can find guys who can play?
DavidCarducci Redright, I don't think Butch is the type of person who would respond to someone telling him that what he's doing isn't working
newdawg Dave, It sounds like to me you think Davis should be fired.
DavidCarducci Newdawg, I won't say that I think he should be fired. I will say I think his roles should change. Policy NEEDS to force him to accept working with a strong personnel man. Right now there is no system of checks and balances with this team, and I think that is the biggest reason for the current problems
brehon Dave - I think the problem with versatile guys is they are great for depth but not what you shld look for in your starters
DavidCarducci Brehon. I agree completely
DavidCarducci And if you are going to sell out in some areas with a marginal guy who is capable of filling several roles, then you damn well better be able to afford or find a way to fill at least a few spots with Pro Bowl caliber talent.
newdawg I would agree the FO needs a better structure. I just don't think Davis will stand for it.
DavidCarducci Newdawg, I don't think he will either
redright Butch is too smart not to see he is failing. Some time soon it has to dawn on him.
DavidCarducci Redright, I hope you are right, but then there is that old saying that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
greg Dave-is it true that the Browns tried to get McKinnie in the draft when he came out?
DavidCarducci Greg, I know they looked into it. How hard I'm not sure, considering it became clear early on that it would be next to impossible
newdawg Dave, what's with Andre Davis. Since the Arizona game, he has been invisible. Morgan has outplayed him.
DavidCarducci Newdawg, the Arizona game came off as a bit of an ""I-told-you-so"" didn't it? Since then, he's had trouble just getting into his patterns.
redright DAVE, a ray of sunshine....what can we look forward to in the line of solid constructive improvement for the last three games this year?
DavidCarducci Redright, the thing that worries me about these last three games is that its going to generate into what we saw towards the end with Palmer. With so little talent and so little continuity, its going to be hard to have any consistency and because of that its going to be hard to get true development and even more, it will be hard to truly evaluate.
petegarcia andre davis in the middle...he can be a very good player down the road
petegarcia I meant the linebacker
petegarcia I do like the WR too though
DavidCarducci PeteGarcia, I agree. He is the one bright spot there. Taylor has questions of durability, and even at his best he is a nice complementary player. Bentley brings very little to the game
greg If it's true that the Browns tried to get McKinnie, it certainly wasn't in an effort to get a ""versatile"" offensive lineman... McKinnie wasn't going to play RG anytime soon... If so, it negates this theory that he ONLY looks for versatile players... he'll try to get the studs he can but in lieu of a stud, a player who can be versatile is the next best option...
DavidCarducci Greg, I don't think Davis only looks for versatile players. It is a priority, though. Warren was also an attempt to get a dominant player at a key position. Too often, however, he settles for marginal, versatile players ... And then he misses on the big money free agents and the high picks who are supposed to be impact players
greg The Patriots are a team full of complementary players and they do just fine... you do need a couple of bell cows, but with that, I'll take plenty of Ben Taylors and other talented role players...
DavidCarducci Greg, I don't have a problem with a guy like a Ben Taylor. He can be a nice player, and he is a good value for where they got him. He is still not the type of guy who can dominate or change a game. There really are no players on this team who can
Stov The only player on the field Monday that went from bell to buzzer was Lang,he has made me think twice of him this year
newdawg Stov, Lang has put together a nice season. But no one has noticed.
DavidCarducci Newdawg, I agree. I think Lang has played well. Orpheus Roye has played well.
Stov Dave what have you heard about the cap ceiling this year,79/80 mil
DavidCarducci Stu, I'm not exactly sure. I haven't looked into it like I should. I've been a bit remiss in some of my duties of late.
petegarcia Dave: from a cap standpoint what are the chances of resigning Cutch, and Cutt this off season?
DavidCarducci PeteGarcia, I think there's very little chance of keeping Cutt. From what I understand, he was not happy with not taking over a starting role when KJ was released, and it will take a top contract to keep him
ramllov Dave how many game breaking players can you have on an offense and a defense and maintain cap intergrity? Four and Four?
DavidCarducci Ram, at this point I'd settle for one and one
brehon cap ceiling was on today -- it is going ip -- there is a thread on the cooler
DavidCarducci Thanks brehon. I'll check into it. That's one of the nice things about this place. The things we miss in the media, you guys are all so on top of everything, you really do end up heling us do our jobs. It is appreciated!!!
greg I'm the last person who needs to be convinced that you need a bell cow or two on your team.. however, picking on a nice complementary player and calling him out for not being dominant rings hollow... he wasn't drafted to be, particularly on day 2 of the draft... William Green, until the drugs got him, was an impact player.. Warren's becoming one... Faine's a real nice player with potential... so he's not sucking... he just had to overcome some early mistakes..
DavidCarducci Greg, I never called him out. I said he's a nice guy to have around, and he does have very real questions regarding durability
DavidCarducci Faine is a nice player, but his pick is undermined by the fact that he missed on day one with a center the year before.
DavidCarducci William Green was drafted knowing of his drug problems and character issues. They knew it was a risk and took it anyway.
DavidCarducci I'm just not impressed in the least with Davis' draft record
DavidCarducci that's why I'd like to see what he can do just as a gameday coach, and see how he can work with a strong personnel man
greg So he missed on a 3rd round center the year before? It's going to happen... he made the adjustment and fixed the situation, and in the process gave the team a quality backup center/guard in Fowler
redright Fowler and Quality? dsame sentence.
greg maybe you should watch him play redright... the only thing Fowler currently lacks is the weight in the butt to move someone... give him another year or two on a nice high fat diet...
DavidCarducci But Greg, an assistant several months before the draft said that they had identified that Fowler was not a guard, and had to be given a chance to play just center. Then you abandon his development so early by drafting Faine. That makes two early picks where you don't get the value you should. Very little value for Fowler, and (this is just a personal opinion) a center in the first round is very rarely a value pick. Then you have long snappers going in round five. Guys like Taylor are the rare value pick in the Davis era
brehon Dave - sorry to keep bringing it up - but is there any word on WG's rehab
DavidCarducci Brehon. No word at all.
newdawg heck, he's failed even on the ones he didn't get. remember Oliver Ross?
newdawg or Waverly Jackson.
DavidCarducci newdawg. That is true :)
greg every one? Lang's pretty good... Rudd stopped the bleeding on passes to the flats... Holmes gave us a Wali-free year which is alright with me... Griff has been his only real miss as far as I can see.. Stokes, Tucker... I like them...
DavidCarducci Greg, that's fine. YOu have a right to your opinion. Overall, I'm just not very impressed with Davis' evaluation of talent at the pro level.
redright DAVE, I do not see us without talent as much as I see us as a badly coached team and I offer Tucker, FAine, Couch, Green, Jackson, White, the 4 dueces, kj,Q,Dre,Cutt...CB, Warren, dra Davis,Henry and a few others all could be playing better than what they have. What is your take? I really have trouble with our coaching staffs over the years and Campos seems to be the best at getting results. He also is the one with the most NFL experience in command. Thoughts?
DavidCarducci Redright, there is talent there, but in my opinion, it is marginal compared to the average around the league. Of the guys on the starting lineup (who would be starting if not for injury), I think only Tucker, Faine, Brown, McCutcheon and possibly Warren would start with the average team if they were released today.
DavidCarducci Redright, I do, however, agree that there are some serious questions with some of the coaching decisions and hires.
brehon Aqib - gotta defend Stokes here - I think he played well this year filling in at LT
DavidCarducci Brehon. I think Stokes has played hard. I respect him for his effort.
Aqib Stokes has been a below average stop gap
greg Stokes below average??? definite disagreement... When a stud LT is ready, Stokes becomes my favorite backup, but his play so far hasn't been what ails this team... he's been solid... it's been the interior... O'hara can't move to ""quality backup"" fast enough for me...
DavidCarducci Greg, I agree. Stokes makes a very nice backup.
greg So would Andra Davis start on an average team...
DavidCarducci Greg, not right now
DavidCarducci Maybe down the road. That's what I was saying earlier. He is a guy whose potential really is not yet known
greg we're just going to have to agree to disagree tonight Dave... :)
DavidCarducci Greg, no problem. That's more than fair
petegarcia Dave how would you rate Shaun O Hara...can he be a starter (at RG) on a good offensive line?
DavidCarducci PeteGarcia, I don't think he can be a starter at RG on a good team, but I actually think he can be a starter on a good team at LG. I liked what I saw of him at LG this year. He would need talent around him, but I like his understanding of the game, his ability to pull, his attitude
DavidCarducci He would need a lot of talent around him, though
redright DAve if our supposed starters are not starters on average teams why is BD fooling around with projects?
redright shouldn't he get players?
DavidCarducci Redright, because he likes the talent on this team. This is just my opinion, and to be honest, it's been molded by talking to several people around the game who I respect.
brehon Dave - if your opinion of ourt alent is that low then you must think Campo is doing a good job with the D
DavidCarducci Brehon, I think Campo has done a pretty good job.
ramllov Dave, have you seen a back up SS on this team that can replace Griffith next year?
DavidCarducci Ram, it might just be Jameson. I actually believe that could be a breakout position for Lewis Sanders if they gave him that opportunity
petegarcia I just refuse to accept that we are that far away talent wise...I like what I've seen out of the D this year....and I think we have some good you skill talent on offense......what is holding us back more than anything (by far) is having a young, creative, witch of an offensive coordinator
DavidCarducci PeteGarcia, unfortunately, there is a very good chance the Browns will lose some of the key players from that defense. Courtney is a big question mark considering he's missed chunks of every single season. Daylon may not be back if they don't match. Griffith is probably gone. Possibly Roye.
YBD Ditto, Duce..... We agree on Sanders. I think Little & Sanders together & healthy can be dynamite.
YBD Sanders (if healthy can't be it?
DavidCarducci that's the big problem YBD. He's never healthy.
YBD I agree Dave, but it he were (yeah and Courtney) and if pigs could fly, yada, tada, yada...........
DavidCarducci YBD, it is frustrating with some of these guys. I actually think Sanders is a very interesting talent. But guys like Sanders, Courtney, James Jackson, they just can not stay on the field
revRecluse Dave, I figured Griffith was a given, but they'd really let Cutch and Roye walk?
DavidCarducci RevRecluse, I think that could happen
redright As a boy I was always led to believe that the great Coaches like Paul Brown and Red Auerbach always had players of good character. Does that count with Butch?
DavidCarducci Redright, I'd like to think so.
YBD Well Dave, I agree..... but where do we (as fans) place the blame for that? Bad selections, bad choices, faulty training, etc?
YBD Where, where, oh where?
DavidCarducci YBD, I wish I knew.
BryanK Dave, you're really depressing me tonight! Any positive signs we can discuss?
DavidCarducci I do have to admit, it is hard to see some of the positives that may be out there. I'm trying. It's just not a very positive environment right now
redright DAVE, where does Carmen stand on all of this?
DavidCarducci Redright, I think he is firmly behind Butch. I don't believe he will challenge his authority by even suggesting bringing on a personnel man
BryanK Must make it tough covering the team everyday!
DavidCarducci BryanK, to be honest, it can be difficult. The relationship between the coach and the media has become adversarial, and then its not easy to be around players, coaches or other personnel from a 4-9 team. Just not a very happy place
Aqib does it look like DAvis is losing the team
DavidCarducci Aqib, I don't think he's losing the team in that they are continuing to play hard and play for their jobs.
DavidCarducci Take care everyone
newdawg later dude.
brehon Thanks Dave
BryanK Thanks Dave.

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