Death Chat 2007: The Green Party

Oh no! Hide the women, children, and your horses! The Death Chat has returned for another week! This time out, the gang debates the value of Trent Green, and other relevant subjects in Brownsland. Prepare yourself for total immersion in Cleveland Browns geekdom...

Rich: Time to kick a little internet butt
Fred: let's do it
Rich: was 92 here today
John: Shutup, Rich
Rich: ok
John: Thank you
Barry: Kick a little Internet butt? Man, starting off hostile this week.
Rich: gotta get in the mood
Barry: I'm under the weather a bit, and I'm not even that hostile.
John: Are you bitchy this week Barry?
Rich: must have been the pizza
Fred: it's not delivery, it's Digiornio
Barry: No, I'm in a fine mood. Now shut up and get ready to spew wisdom in this week's Death Chat.
Rich: ready
Rich: set
Rich: go

1. Define the term "Franchise Quarterback" in a way that does not confuse the webmaster.
Barry: Ha! A general question to put you all off-guard.
Rich: I can't because there is no such thing.
John: Someone who you can pencil in at the position for the next 7-10 years without having to worry about an upgrade.
Fred: A QB who can carry the offense on his own. Barring injury, you can count on for 8-10 years
Fred: Nice description, John

There is no such animal as a franchise anything in football.
Barry: I'm confused, Rich. People call Peyton Manning a "franchise quarterback". Are you saying he doesn't exist?
Barry: Then who hosted Saturday Night Live last week?
Rich: And how can you be so certain that the person will give you 7-10 years before you draft him?
John: Peyton Manning is not? Carson Palmer? Tom Brady?
Rich: What does franchise mean?
Rich: Brady doesn't win all those titles without a terrific defense.
John: You can't, that's why I label the two QBs as "potential franchise" or "franchise-type" QBs.
Rich: If Manning had been the Pats' quarterback, he'd have won all those titles. Because of the defense, something the Colts
didn't have much of.
John: Can you not read, Rich. Look at my answer above.
Rich: How can you label someone before he's had a chance to prove himself?
Fred: You can't
Rich: That's right.
John: What don't you understand about the words "potential" and "franchise-type"? Yer already penciling in AP. What's wrong
with my #2 pencil?
Rich: Is Eli Manning a franchise QB? David Carr? Both were No. 1 picks.
Barry: So, basically what I'm reading here is that a "franchise QB" is someone who could potentially put his stamp on a franchise and lead the offense for well-nigh a decade.
John: No, you really don't understand.
Rich: Another word I don;t like. Potential. Potential means you're not quite good enough.
Fred: They aren't a franchise QB until they have proven it.
Rich: Exactly. So how can you call them franchise before they have a chance to prove it?
John: Then why draft AP? Or anybody for that matter? Yer going on potential for anybody drafted.
Rich: How about dropping the label "franchise?"
Fred: What is all the arguing about.
Barry: You can't call someone a "franchise quarterback" before you draft them, but that's what you hope they become.
Rich: Exactly.
John: How 'bout adding the qualifiers of "potential" and "franchise-type"?
John: Nope, I ain't done yet.
Rich: So Russell and Quinn aren't franchise quarterbacks. Yet.
John: Exactly. neither is AP the Pro Bowl, ga\me-changing stud you make him out to be.

Alright, let's go to ISSUE TWO...
Barry: 2. List, in order of importance, the three most important positions on a football team, specifically one using a 3-4 defense, and provide some measure of justification for your answers.
Fred: I would rank them at linebacker, left tackle and quarterback
John: Damn good question.
Rich: In football, all positions are important. Football is a team game. You can have a great quarterback (say a Dan Marino) and a
great offense. But if you don't have a great defense and special teams, forget it.
Fred: I agree it's a team game, but you asked for a ranking
Barry: That I did.
John: QB, pass-rushing LB, lock-down CB.
Barry: Rich, I'm asking this question specifically with respect to the upcoming draft, so by your answer you're suggesting our top
draft pick could essentially be any position.
Rich: I can't rank because of the team concept.
John: Wow.
John: And you can espouse AP with such vigor?
Rich: I believe the most important position the Browns need to fill in the first round is running back. And there's a stud there in
Adrian Peterson.
Rich: After that, they can fill needs on both lines and at cornerback. They have six rounds to do that.
John: But it's a team, Rich. Don't put one position above another.

Barry: Let's tweak the question then...
Based on the demands of the position, and the laws of supply and demand, which positions are the most difficult to fill on your football team?
Fred: Left tackle, nose tackle, quarterback
Rich: Right now for the Browns, those positions are running back, defensive line, cornerback (just one) and offensive line
(notably tackle).
Barry: Are those positions of need, or the hardest ones to fill?
Rich: Both
Fred: I was talking about hardest to find
Barry: And, for the record, I think Fred is 100% correct. Those are the hardest players to find on your football team.
John: No need at QB, even for the future?
Fred: I think you can never have enough good QBs
Rich: This year, the hardest one to find after the first round is defensive and offensive tackle. There are plenty of decent corners.
Or is it just a case of surrounding one player with great talent at every position, instead of getting somebody at one position who can make everybody better?
Barry: LT, NT, QB require very special, very difficult to find combinations of mental and physical attributes. Particularly LT, in my opinion.
Barry: BTW, we are bringing the philosophical segment of the death chat to a close.
Fred: That's my opinion
Rich: Agreed. But there is a chance Joe Staley might be there for them in round 2.

Barry: 3. Trent Green. Cleveland Browns. Is this a match that should be made prior to draft day?
Rich: Not if it costs anything more than a sixth-round pick.
Rich: And a restructuring of his contract.
Fred: I would do it for a 4th or fifth pick
John: Not for anything that involves a fourth-round pick or higher.
Rich: Too much.
Rich: For a 37-year-old on the way down.
Fred: You don't think he's better than Charlie or Anderson for a year?
Barry: So, are you all telling me that who we draft is irrelevant to whether or not we grab Trent Green?
Fred: Yes
Rich: Sure.
John: If they get one of the two top QBs on draft day, I send a fifth to KC for Trent.
Rich: That makes four quarterbacks. Who goes?
Rich: You can have that one, John.
John: Easy: Chuck goes
Barry: For the record, I think you only grab Green IF you get either Quinn or Russell, so you can "Carson Palmer" them.
Fred: I don't know why they would get Green if they draft one
Barry: So that the quarterback can learn from an effective mentor. I don't want him to learn from Charlie Frye, that's for sure.
Rich: Boy how the mighty have fallen.
Barry: I think JT and I are in lock-step on this one.
John: Huh? Chuck was mighty?
Rich: He was on this Web site.
Rich: Let's hope Savage doesn't go the QB route.
John: Why Rich?
Fred: I still sit here today looking for Peterson
Barry: I think if our QB depth chart is Trent Green, Anderson, and Quinn/Russell on 4/30, Phil Savage has hit a grand slam home run.
John: RAAACCKK Barry. That's an A+ offseason right there.
Rich: Not in agreement in the least.
John: Somebody that gives you a chance to win right now, plus hope for the future.
Fred: That's why I get Green even if they don't draft one
Barry: There's a philosophical difference here that can be summarized as "win now" vs. "keep building". Peterson helps them be more competitive in September, but a QB helps next year.
Rich: That would be a big mistake in my opinion. This club needs a running game. Badly. Jamal Lewis can't do it by himself. And don't give me Jason Wright.
John: You can do both if you trade for Green and draft Quinn/Russell
Fred: With Green and Peterson you can win right now if you can stop the run
Barry: Fred, the only reason I don't say grab Green in the case of not drafting a QB, is that I view most of his value being an ability to mentor a younger QB.
John: Yeah, a quality QB wouldn't help the running game. Once again, rely on everybody else but the QB to make others better.
Barry: If we're just doing a rent-a-QB for a couple of years, I'd as soon keep the pick.
Barry: If it's a sixth-rounder, though, it might be worth it to me.
Rich: Peterson is the kind of back who can make an average offensive line look good. He's got wonderful instincts.
Rich: I can deal with a sixth rounder.
Fred: The Browns haven't hit on much in the fifth six or seventh
Barry: I don't think Peterson can help if defenses still stack the line like they do against Frye.
John: Droughns averaging 4.5 YPC with Dilfer, a little over 3 with Frye. yeah, it has nothing to do with the QB.
Barry: He's good, but he can't compensate for a bad passing game.
Barry: Good points here by everyone.
John: Except Passan
Fred: Good discussion
Barry: Let me ask a quick follow-up
Rich: Hope you're not comparing Droughns with Peterson.
John: Nope, I'm comparing a running game with Dilfer as opposed to a running game with Frye

Barry: 3A. Follow-up: If the Browns don't draft a quarterback, and bring in Trent Green to start, is it reasonable to say that
Charlie Frye's career as a starting quarterback is effectively over?

Fred: I would think so
Barry: By that, I mean for the rest of his career. He' done.
Rich: Not yet.
Rich: In that case, yes.
John: Frye will be a good backup/spot starter somewhere, whether it's in Cleveland or elsewhere. And, again, I hope I'm wrong on Frye.
Rich: You're not.
John: I think so too, Rich.
Barry: Alright!

Barry: 4. The Washington Redskins interviewed QB Jamarcus Russell last week, to some minor media noise. If Russell fell to #3, would you trade our pick to the Redskins for their #6 and QB Jason Campbell?
Fred: No
John: No.
Barry: Ah, Rich is pondering.... good...
Rich: Make it unanimous
Barry: No big Jason Campbell fans here, eh?
Fred: Jason who?
Barry: What if I threw in a third round pick, would you do it then?
Rich: No
Fred: no
Barry: John?
Rich: Are the Cavaliers playing tonight?
Fred: no
John: No. Unless you can assure me that I'd get AP.
Rich: Thought John might have been distracted by them.
Barry: Jason Campbell is who Savage would have drafted in Round 2 instead of Pool if the Skins hadn't moved up.
Rich: I thought you wanted Quinn, John.
Barry: Alright. I think Phil Savage would think about it, honestly.
Rich: For a nanosecond.
Barry: LOL, Rich
John: If the two QBs are off the board wherever the Browns pick, I want them to take AP

Barry: 5. Are there any significant reasons for the Browns to avoid Joe Thomas? Is he a "safe" pick?
Rich: Yes. They need a running back more than a left tackle.
Fred: I don't think so, but don't think they'd do that
John: Salary cap, not worth a top-five pick
Barry: I'm asking more about the player than the Browns needs.
Barry: Not a lot of interest here in Joe Thomas. Interesting. Dude ran a 4.9.
Rich: He's not Anthony Munoz or Tony Bosselli or Jonathan Ogden or Walter Jones or Orlando Pace. No.
John: He's a top-twenty talent who's hitting the lottery because there are no premiere LTs in the draft.

Barry: FOLLOWUP: Which Big Ten OLT does Joe Thomas remind you of more: Robert Gallery or Orlando Pace?
Rich: I don't care if he ran a 4.5. No.
Fred: Gallery
Rich: Gallery
John: Who cares about his 40? What are the Browns gonna do, line him up at TE and have him split the seam?
Barry: Interesting. No one fooled by the 40 time, obviously.
Fred: lol
Barry: That's what they would do with Jamarcus.


1. More disappointing: Two national championship losses for Ohio State to the same team or the 2006 Cleveland Browns?
John: tOSU
Rich: Ditto
Fred: browns
John: I expect the Browns to suck on an annual basis
Fred: Alright OSU
Rich: How can you be disappointed about a team that wasn't supposed to do well to begin with?
Fred: good point
Point for Taylor and Rich. Sorry Fred. Correct answer is tOSU. Championship chances are rare, but bad football teams are
John: Haha Fred.
Rich: Trying to stay humble here.
Barry: However, Fred gets two for answering the position question correctly above, so JT and Rich are still scrambling to catch up.
John: ROFL Rich. You and humble in the same sentence
Rich: Thought you'd appreciate that one.
John: :-)

2. Was the Miami Dolphins private response to KC's Carl Peterson "outing" Savage's interest in Trent Green most likely
(A) Concern and an increased offer, or (B) A sentence starting with a series of expletives and ending in the word "him".
Fred: trying to drive up Green's price tag
Rich: Business as usual.
John: As Phil would say, the silly season
Barry: What I was getting at... does anyone think it worked?
John: I'll bet Phil was pissed, though.
Rich: No
Barry: I bet you're right, John, and he should be.
Barry: The correct answer, btw, was "2". No points. Fred still leads.
John: Yes he should be, but King Carl is a noted a**hole so it ain't surprising
Barry: Ooo, I'm gonna have to do some slight editing on that one. "Noted" isn't appropriate when talking about a football exec.
John: BS, Barry. He is a noted a-hole. It's on his business card and everything.

Barry: 3. The Browns pick a RB, WR, or QB in Round One. In Round Two, do you tell them to pick a CB, OG, or Best Player Available regardless of position
John: BPA
Rich: Defensive or offensive tackle.
Fred: cornerback
Barry: LOL
Barry: OK, another point for Fred. Well done.
John: Barry Peterson, Carl McBride.
Barry: I'm not "noted". Just regular.

Barry: 4. OFF-TOPIC Finale: Congratulations! Your name is Greg Oden and you're seven foot tall and blessed with mad skillz. Do you stay another year at Ohio State or jump to the NBA?
John: Stay.
Fred: don't do drugs! stay in school
Rich: Stay because I'm having too much fun in school.
Rich: Don't tell me. Greetham wins another one.
Barry: You're all three correct, plus Ohio State is a veritable reservoir for cute women.
Fred: teachers pet
John: Lucky for you, eh Barry?
Barry: Greetham totally kicked arse. Sorry fellas.
Rich: How much did it cost ya, Fred?
Fred: Not getting a check
John: Shouldn't a Lightning Round consist of five questions? Ain't that a law?
Barry: He won on his own. He defends next week on the OBR DEATH CHAT 2007!
Fred: Wahoo

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