concerned on Thursday night. Check this out as Dave talks about the teams challenges and possible changes on the horizon."> concerned on Thursday night. Check this out as Dave talks about the teams challenges and possible changes on the horizon.">

Browns Uncensored Chat Transcript

Well, we've hacked and mangled up another Browns Uncensored chat transcript. We try to condense these (i.e., snip out most of the chit-chat) for easier reading, but you sort of miss the "mood" of the room if you're not there. I would put the mood of the room down as <i>concerned</I> on Thursday night. Check this out as Dave talks about the teams challenges and possible changes on the horizon.

newdawg we are heart broken no browns are in the pro bowl.
DavidCarducci Not many really deserved it. Shame
DavidCarducci as in it's a shame
newdawg even the bungals had one player.
RDawg99 What about the Titans?
ArtBtz Would you have put anyone in there, Dave?
PCDawg I thought Northcutt might have had a chance at the pro bowl?
newdawg non deserved it.
DavidCarducci From the Browns, maybe Northcutt as a return specialist
DavidCarducci Roye is the defensive MVP in my mind, but he doesn't belong on the list
DavidCarducci Fuller has played well, but he doesn't belong on it either
newdawg when he got hurt, it took his momentum away.
ArtBtz Exactly, newdawg.
DavidCarducci No real standouts
DavidCarducci Maybe Courtney Brown
ArtBtz * gag *
DavidCarducci couldn't type that without laughing
RDawg99 heh
DavidCarducci Sad
newdawg now now. he's such a nice young man.
DavidCarducci That's what we hear. Of course, he is never around to talk to us
PCDawg It just blows my mind that we have 3 very high #1 draft picks and none of them are within sniffing distance of the Pro Bowl.
newdawg David, why do you think such a tremendous talent so greatly underachieved?
DavidCarducci Newdawg, I'm not sure. It is something I plan to ask Butch Davis at the end of the year for my wrapup story ... why is it that the front four is so consistently unable to create natural pressure.
PCDawg As for Courtney, I don't care if he is shy or whatever. He's a #1 overall pick and he's making tons of money. Shouldn't he make himself available to the media?
DavidCarducci Yes. He should
DavidCarducci His shyness and inability to even attempt to deal with that I think speaks volumes.
DavidCarducci It could be that all of this just isn't that important to him
newdawg you would think a media person would say so, but i must agree.
howldawg dave any whispers about off season moves?
DavidCarducci Howldawg. Not a whole lot yet, other than that I've heard the Browns have identified several areas of need
howldawg such as
DavidCarducci I think Davis likes what Stokes has done recently, but he sees him as we've all talked about ... a perfect utility lineman. Same with O'Hara. I've heard from people close to Davis that he is convinced he doesn't have the right starters at guard to make the offense work.
RDawg99 amen
DavidCarducci I've heard there could be a few changes at LB
DavidCarducci And possibly a few on the coaching staff
howldawg helmet gate
howldawg lol
PCDawg A new defensive coordinator perhaps?
DavidCarducci Good bet
DavidCarducci Also a good bet
DavidCarducci If there aren't any changes in the staff, I think that shows that Davis might be overly micromanaging this team. He would be accountable for the mistakes, then, and for the inability to light a fire under a defensive line with so much talent and so many huge investments
redright Dave, I could be wrong but it seems we have sufficient talent to play Defense better than we do. the Front four has some very talented players and good backup---The line backers have to be better than they produce and Hambrick and Holmes are noted for their run defense---#24 is supposed to be a stud at run stopping. Lang, Warren , Brown are supposed better at run stopping than pass rushing. Roye is the best player on defense this year, IMO. We score 22ppg and give up 21ppg. Is it Foge? What is it?
DavidCarducci We never really get a feel for how much control Foge actually has. I think he and possibly Zierlein are not the best of fits.
DavidCarducci Zierlein was added to the staff because he came highly recommended to Butch, but Butch didnt' know him before he came here. He's not a Butch Davis guy from before Cleveland.
redright The defense looked lost when the colts went to a hurry up Kept them on the field and they couldn't think. Is that coaching?
DavidCarducci Yes. It is coaching. They saw the hurry up coming. They know that the Colts always pick up the pace of the game when they are behind. When Manning went to hurry up, the Browns stopped trying to disguise what they were doing. They played a very soft zone, hoping and praying that the front four could generate some pressure. As always, the past should have been the best indicator of the future. THey had no real reason to believe the front four would consistently create natural pressure
redright I could be wrong but I do not see any passion or intelligence or urgency in our defense. they seem to lack desire
PCDawg What's up with Carmen Policy? He makes comments about Couch and the team potentially needing an overhaul. Then Butch turns around and says he doesn't think the team needs an overhaul. Was Butch pissed that these comments were made by Carmen?
BryanK How is the relationship between Butch and Carmen?
DavidCarducci Policy's comments in the locker room regarding possibly needing an overhaul were not directed at couch. He said that it is possible that this team needs some major changes, but that is for Davis and his staff to decide. He never advocated any changes
BryanK If Foge goes, is his replacement already on staff?
DavidCarducci I don't think so Bryan. I can't think of a defensive coach who is ready to take on that role ... other than Butch himself. And let's hope that is not the case
DavidCarducci I don't really see much intelligence anywhere on this team. I think there is desire, but it is so often misdirected.
BryanK Wow...thats rather disappointing
newdawg that's the truth. all attitude and no brains.
RDawg99 Would they possibly consider someone like Dick LeBeau if availible?
BryanK Good; I think some fresh ideas would be good
DavidCarducci I don't know if LeBeau's scheme fits Davis'. LeBeau has always been most successful in 3-4 and/or schemes that call for a lotof blitzing. Davis is in love with the idea of playing cover two and similar coverage schemes and trying to get natural pressure from the fornt four
DavidCarducci LeBeau is a very good defensive coordinator, though. He is aggressive, almost to a fault, and I think that would be a nice change for this defense.
DavidCarducci THat's the way he was in Pittsburgh
howldawg is that why policy repeated his comments tonight? & last night we discussed cap issues any insight ?
redright Dave, is it fair for people to bash Couch when he has to perform behind a poor O-line? He is in his fourth year and has never had an O-line (quality) a tight -end and just this year has a running back and a passing game. Your thoughts please. I like Couch and seem to be alone.
DavidCarducci Redright. I don't think it is right to bash Couch. I think there have been times when he has played lousy. I think there have been times when he has played very well. I do see development with him. I think he will continue to develop, and with an offensive line in place hopefully next season, and a go-to back, I think he could start to flourish.
Guest169 why does it seem like our opponents make half time adjustments and we stick to the same game plan?
redright Dave, that Defense works in college, see Miami; But it seems very hard to do in the pros.
DavidCarducci Redright, actually the defense has been working pretty well of late in the pros with Indy and Tampa and several other teams. It is becoming the in vogue defense in the NFL. I think that is why Davis has tried to copy it this year
RDawg99 That right there tells me enough about Davis' micromanaging.
PCDawg -The whole thing with Andre Davis after the Colts game was very revealing. Couch covered up for him until Davis came clean. How much covering up does Couch do for his teammates? Is it possible that this is not always a good thing - maybe the players feel less accountable because someone else is willing to take the blame?
DavidCarducci PCDawg ... Very good question ... He does a ton of covering up! A ton of it. He never openly criticizes a player. Never. And in his four years, there have been several offensive linemen ripe for criticism. Several RB's and WR's, too.
DavidCarducci I know of several mistakes by KJ, Morgan and Jamel White this season that made Couch look very bad and added to his heat. He never talked about those mistakes.
newdawg isn't that the defense that tony dungy uses?
DavidCarducci Newdawg. It is the defense Dungy uses
FunkyDawg It seems strange that Davis expects ""natural"" pressure from the front four after so much blitzing last season.
redright I agree, thanks Dave
redright Where can the Browns get a Tight End?
DavidCarducci The TE could be on the roster in Darnell Sanders. I'd like to see what he does next year with an NFL offseason of work in the training room and minicamps (he missed the camps this year). I think he has a whole lot more talent than I originally thought. If you remember, I was pretty critical of the pick last year
BryanK I'd love to see what Couch can do if he had a strong OL
redright That's the coaches job.Isn't it?
FunkyDawg Whatever happened to JJJohnson the new fullback from the Dolphins?
DavidCarducci JJ Johnson was on IR all year with the neck injury.
DavidCarducci Don't know if he will be back, or if the Browns will look for a new option at FB or continue to try to develop Bowers
PCDawg It's interesting that none of those guys (KJ, Morgan, White) felt the need to help Couch out and own up to their mistakes. I give Andre Davis a ton of credit.
howldawg any truth to the rumor that ravens fans will wear browns jerseys to confuse our players..............LOL
DavidCarducci KJ and Morgan actually did, but the more exciting story in the media and on talk shows is to bash Couch
Guest169 Dave, when will the Browns give up on C Brown?
DavidCarducci Guest169, it's hard to give up on him because he's a No. 1 overall and you'd hate to see him finally have the light go on in another city. It would be a hard for Davis, as a defensive coach, to live down the failure of tapping into Courtney's talent. I think it is more likely that a few coaches get scapegoated, and someone else is brought in to attempt to light a fire under Brown. His inability to stay on the field, though, is a major concern
FunkyDawg Will we go after free agent fullback Lorenzo Neal?
DavidCarducci FunkyDawg. Don't know if we will, but any veteran FB who understands run blocking might be welcome
truedawg37 the truth is out there lol
FunkyDawg Cool.
redright Dave, other than moving Verba to guard, what can be done; what can we expect to be done to improve the O-line? With and withour the current players and special teams. backups?
FunkyDawg Is this team mentally ready for the Ravens during this tough week after the loss?
DavidCarducci FunkyDawg, I haven't been around the locker room this week. I have been in Charlotte and Chattanooga, Tenn., preparing to switch from covering pro football to college basketball full time in a couple of weeks. This team's psyche is always hard to read. At least it's on the road, right? That appears to be the best way to cure the Browns' ills
RDawg99 Gandy from Pitt.?
Guest196 Chris Mortenson wrote in his article on ESPN that the Browns' front office may look at Kordell Stewart in the offseason. Please say this is erroneous. Please!
DavidCarducci Guest 196, if that were to happen, it would be in a slash-type role. That's it. Not to compete at QB. I haven't heard anything of the sort. I think it is just pot-boiler garbage
Guest196 Thanks a billion
howldawg dave do we really want a fullback green has stated that he preferrs not to follwo a fullback?
redright Sorry for the convoluted question. Must be the beer.
redright Could be coaching?
FunkyDawg I'm nervous. The Ravens actually believe they can win this division.
DavidCarducci FunkyDawg, the good thing about that is that the Ravens could be out for bear against the Steelers in the final week. Even if the Browns can win Sunday, the Ravens have to feel like they'll have a shot if the Steelers lose to Tampa. A Browns loss to the Falcons followed by a Ravens win over the Steelers would give them the division. So the Ravens play the Steelers tough, then wait to see what happens with the Browns.
truedawg37 Could it be discpline
Guest169 C Brown was an animal at PSU, he is too diciplined? I know its a huge step, but he is a non factor
truedawg37 Its not tc prob when the line gets back to back penalties
DavidCarducci Those things are killers truedawg
howldawg cool
redright Dave, you have used the word, term scheme in many applications this year, Care to apply to where we are today?
DavidCarducci I'm not sure I understand redright?
truedawg37 has cost us atleast 3 games
FunkyDawg Interesting. Do our Browns still feel like WE have a shot? Or are they as neurotic as I am?
DavidCarducci FunkyDawg, I have to believe they are trying to convince themselves they have a shot ... but I'm sure there is some neurosis
newdawg Dave, is morgan ready to take over as #1 receiver?
DavidCarducci Newdawg, I think he is. Morgan might be the most talented of the bunch. He is dedicated and hard working ... and more than that, he has a chip on his shoulder that he wants the ball. That's refreshing on this team. He wants to be the guy to make plays
Guest169 I can't believe we may miss the playoffs because of the helmet toss? will Rudd be back next year?
DavidCarducci Guest169, my bet is no. Unless he is willing to renegotiate.
FunkyDawg The first loss to the Steelers bugs me more than the helmet thing. Horrible decision by the ref to make that call by the way LOL.
redright Is it our players or our scheme that has us giving up co many rushing yards? Stopping our offense. Keeeping us from playing a game where we don't have to go to the final minute to win or secure a win. Is it our talent or our scheme that is holding us back?
DavidCarducci Redright, I think it is a mixture of both. Davis is a not a guy who fits his scheme to his personnel (although he did it to some extent with Jamir Miller last year). He came to Cleveland with a style of play that he wants to play on offense and defense. He wanted to run first on offense, even if it meant spinning his wheels. He wanted to establish that type of personality. Now, after struggling for a year and a half, it is paying off
DavidCarducci On defense, Davis has a style he wants to play, and he thought he had the right personnel. In the current scheme, as we've talked about, he needs natural pressure from the front four. He should expect to get that from a DL with 2 high firsts and two high priced FA's, but isn't getting it
DavidCarducci He also thought he was adding a LB who would fly around and make plays in Rudd and a S who would fly around and help against the run. He hasn't gotten that. Griffith has been very inconsistent. Rudd has been a non factor. Warren has not been the force he should have been, and that could have something to do with work ethic.
DavidCarducci SO he thought he had the guys to play the scheme, and might not have been right. THat's a problem in talent evaluation when it comes to FA's and possibly also with the draft
Guest169 But if thats the case Dave, why hasn't he blitzed more? Letting QBs like Redman pick us apart make me sick.
DavidCarducci Guest169, it's because he is going to stick with his scheme come hell or high water. Just like he did on offense with the running game. Hopefully eventually it clicks on defense just as it seams to be in the running game. Of course, now it would be a little late
redright How secure is Griffith?
DavidCarducci Redright, griffith is probably pretty secure. He hasn't been what the Browns had hoped, but he also struggled with an injury and it is his first year in the system. COuld just be an off year
truedawg37 How secure is the offensive line coach
DavidCarducci OL coach may not be the best fit. Like I said, Zierlein is here solely because of a good interview after coming highly recommended by people Davis respects around the league and college football. He doesn't have the greatest resume, though. He has 31 years of coaching, and only the last two at the NFL level. Anyway, he is not a Butch Davis guy from before Cleveland. Davis didn't even know him.
RDawg99 David, I seriously have a problem with that philosophy.
DavidCarducci RDawg99. Which philosophy?
RDawg99 That BD insists on forcing his schemes....regardless of personnel
RDawg99 and their abilities
DavidCarducci RDawg99. I don't really like it either, but in some ways I can understand it. If Davis compromises his beliefs and how he wants this team to play, and is somewhat successful in his first two years, then he may be forced into a situation where he has to stick with it. It's like a college coach taking over who wants to play run and shoot, but hetakes over a program that runs the wishbone. He is not going to run the wishbone, even thought that's the personnel he has. He is going to force that team to run his style while he goes out and recruits the guys who fit that style for the future
RDawg99 David, couldnt that eventually spell doom?
truedawg37 YEAH
DavidCarducci It would spell doom in the first few years, until he gets ""his"" players in place
DavidCarducci Like I said. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that is the impression I get from Davis
redright We can only hope it is an off year He missed stand out tackles in three games this year!
redright I'm thinking the O-line coach is doing a pretty good job with very limited talent.
DavidCarducci That might be true.
DavidCarducci He is certainly getting the line to play better right now. At the same time, if he is in on the evaluation process, they missed the boat in Free Agency.
redright It's not coaching when the O-line has a guy over him that is going to beat him. Like Verba this week and Tucker the week before.
truedawg37 snap count is still snap count
redright Not when your scared and cheating the count
DavidCarducci You might be right redright
truedawg37 lol
DavidCarducci I'm not anti-Zierlein. Just saying Butch doesn't have a history with him, so he might be a candidate if there is a coaching purge
Guest169 dave, do you think we will win the next two?
DavidCarducci Guest169, I said last week that I thought they would put it together and win the last three ... you guys don't want me to say that I think they'll win the last two. I once said that Kannard Johnson was the biggest second-round steal in the NBA Draft and would be a star for the Cavs. Ever hear of Kannard Johnson?
DavidCarducci Things I say don't come true, darn it
redright Sounds like a canard :-)
FunkyDawg Things I say don't come true either. Ravens win, Steelers win LOL!!!
DavidCarducci Guys. I have to run. I have to write a story on the mighty Kent State Golden Flashes and why they are heading back to the NCAA Tournament
Guest169 later
howldawg thanks dave & art good night dawgs
RDawg99 Thank You David!!
redright Thanks Dave, I learned a lot tonight.
truedawg37 thk and peace
DavidCarducci Thank you all
RDawg99 Thank You Art!!
ArtBtz See ya Dave
DavidCarducci All of you have a very merry christmas if I don't chat with you until then
BryanK See you, Dave
DavidCarducci See you AB
ArtBtz You too!
redright Best to you and yours
DavidCarducci See you all later
FunkyDawg Merry Christmas and GO BROWNS!!!
redright Lot of questions tonight. Going to be a very interesting off season and draft.
howldawg nite new merry christmas

The OBR Top Stories