Transcript: Fred and Sobo from Indy

Thursday night's chat from Indy captured for historical study by future generations. Join Sobo again tonight at 9PM!

<FredGreetham> Hello from Indy!
<FredGreetham> How we doing?
<FredGreetham> Not really! Slow day Browns wise and even league wise..at least here
<FredGreetham> Just had a nice dinner downtown

<ramllov> Hey Fred how is the weather?
<FredGreetham> snowed this morning but has cleared up. cold though!

<SOBOdawg> Had a little trouble getting in here due to the internet service in the hotel
<SOBOdawg> let's wait a minute then get cracking

<brownsrthebest04> sobo have you heard anything about the tebow 2.0?
<SOBOdawg> BTB:  What's there to hear?  He's a 3rd round prospect not worthy of all this discussion
<brownsrthebest04> that is what i figured agent must be hyping his new delivery
<SOBOdawg> BTB:  The fact of the matter is that all this hoopla semi-false, being his workouts have not been going as well as they're portraying

<billbrasky09> do you agree w/ Adam S. that Bradford will DEFINITELY be drafted #1 overall by the Rams?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  I saw that earlier today and it's too early to tell.  They certainly do need a Qb, but neither top prospect should rightly go no.1 overall.
<FredGreetham> Not for sure in February

<threepiece> Daniel Jeremiah says after today he wouldn't be shocked to see Berry drop to 7Ö 1.) Is Jeremiah on the level and 2.) for the love of God, how do we get this to happen??
<SOBOdawg> Three:  It's all about positional value in regards to Berry and who falls in love with him.

<howldawg> anyone pull any bone head comments today?
<SOBOdawg> Howl:  Nothing boneheaded, but both the Bryan Bulaga and Chris Gronkowski interviews were Interesting
<pnies20> interesting meaning...they're dumb as a sack of nickels?
<SOBOdawg> Pnies:  Interesting for different reasons.   Bulaga for his candidness, Gronkowski for his stern delivery
<FredGreetham> A lot of the interviews are so polished and scripted, it's like they're in a trial.

<billbrasky09> Fred/Sobo - do you guys agree w/ Holmgren that the QBs should be throwing at combine?  Holmgren makes it sound like they have little to lose and much to gain by throwing at combine - do you agree?
<FredGreetham> Yes. ANy time you have a chance to sell yourself I think you should--on your playing ability that is.
<SOBOdawg> Bill: Agree wtih Fred on this one.   Anytime you can come in and compete; it's always for the best and shows well to teams

<SOBOdawg> Ram:  Gronkowski would have been a first rounder if not for injury, though I just heard over dinner that he may have attitude issues
<howldawg> 5,0So Gronk just came off all wrong, like he had an attitude?
<SOBOdawg> Howl:  Like there may me more to hide to the situation

<billbrasky09> so about Pike - he's throwing at the combine, could that push him up a bit in the draft?
<FredGreetham> I think it will help Pike

<pnies20> 1,0**Why does Mayock and some others have Berry dropping now? What has changed from then to now?? Or is it just out of boredom?
<SOBOdawg> Pnies:  Different system.  He wasn't the playmaker this year under Monte Kiffin as opposed to his sophomore campaign

<dawgbacker26> Is Jarrett Brown throwing Sobo?
<SOBOdawg> DB:  As far as I know currently, he is.

<dawgbacker26> Sobo, did you have the assignment of scouting Derek Hardman? If so, do you think he could be a solid 5th rounder for the Browns @ RT
<SOBOdawg> DB26:   I was one I did not have the pleasure of scouting

<adogbtown> What's the deal with the running backs?  They haven't arrived yet, so is it just rumors that the Browns are interested in upgrading here?
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  That information did not come from any running back prospect
<adogbtown> Sobo, any specific names the Browns might be interested in?
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  That...we'll have to see.
<FredGreetham> There's a lot of stuff flyin around here. We'll see how Holmgren addressres that. 4:30 Friday

<billbrasky09> could Taylor Mays gain draft ground back w/ an outstanding combine?  or is he screwed either way because he was exposed so badly this year on the field?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  Bad tape is bad tape no matter how well you work out.    It could keep him in late round 1 on a good team that can mold his potential.   But I'm pretty sure most are already expecting Mays to test relatively well

<adogbtown> If Bradford is gone, is Clausen an option at 7?  Please tell me no!
<FredGreetham> I wouldn't think so, but no indication has been given.
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  I would say no on Clausen because of attitude
<adogbtown> Attitude as in he's not a leader or he's a prick??
<SOBOdawg> option no.2

<lildawg99> did bradford have much experience reading defenses at OU?
<FredGreetham> yes, but it's been a big difference from the NFL
<SOBOdawg> Lil:  Bradford played in what I refer to as a "check with me" system.   It's one of the reasons I have never been too high on his play.   Before every play, in their no huddle system, all the skills players check with the coaches to see if they like the play called or audible from those same sidelines


<dawgbacker26> Sobo, if Holmgren forces the Browns to go WCO and Bradford isn't available,who is your #1 option in the draft?
<SOBOdawg> DB26:   Have to give me a little more than that.   I don't think any team should pass on the elite 4 in this class (Suh, G.McCoy, Berry or Haden).   If one of those are on the board, take whichever is available

<billbrasky09> I read that all it would take for us to trade up from 7 to 5 is a third rd pick - we have two of them, so...do you agree, is that all it would take?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  Usually takes more.   The trade value chart is merely a guideline, not a relastic bargaining tool


<adogbtown> Curious, but where would Sanchez go this year, if he had stayed for his senior year at USC?  Go ahead of Bradford or behind him?
<FredGreetham> behind
<howldawg> ahead of claussen Fred?
<FredGreetham> No
<adogbtown> behind Bradford? that's a little surprising.
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  Sanchez would have likely gone above both.  I was never a fan, but it's hard to overlook how things played out for the SC QB
<FredGreetham> just my opinion

<adogbtown> Where do you guys think Clausen goes...in terms of a range?
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  Clausen has the potential to go no.1 overall, but could fall to at least 9.
<FredGreetham> 5-15

<ramllov> SOBO, is the Indy Combine atmosphere pretty much positive on this year's college players abilities.  Are they over hyped?
<FredGreetham> general feeling by coaches gms is that this is a strong and deep draft
<SOBOdawg> Ram:  The indy Combine atmosphere, at least from our perspective, was pretty lethargic today

<dawgbacker26> Do you think the Browns could look at Dez Bryant or Jared Odrick @ 7?
<SOBOdawg> DB26:  Bryant...no.   And I like Odrick quite a bit and even mentioned him as a dark horse candidate selection a few days ago

<adogbtown> Who do the Browns pick between Berry, if he falls, & Haden??
<FredGreetham> I would take Berry, but happy with Haden
<adogbtown> Yes, the comparisons of Berry to Ed Reed are enticing.  Browns could certainly use a playmaker like that in the secondary.
<howldawg> what if they are both gone Fred?
<FredGreetham> howl. if both are gone, I would seriously look at the WR or RT

<lildawg99> jason pierre-paul fit the 3-4 as OLB?
<SOBOdawg> Lil:  JPP has played so little and is so raw, his a giant unmolded piece of clay right now

<adogbtown> Fred, I think you're in the majority there, but if Haden is a true shutdown corner, that's hard to pass on.
<FredGreetham> Yes, but I just keep seeing what Ed Reed and Troy P. do in this division.

<dawgbacker26> Jarrett Brown, Mike Kafka, Colt McCoy. Do you feel any of the 3 will be good pros? If so, would they fit the WCO?
<SOBOdawg> Db26:  It's no secret I like Kafka's potential

<crazydog> SOBO much talk about Spiller or Bryant for the Browns?
<SOBOdawg> Crazy:  Hard to tell yet, simply because neither is here yet, or arrived late today

<ramllov> SOBO is the Browns drafted Joe Haden, would the Browns be considered to have one of the best sets of starting CBs by 2011?
<SOBOdawg> Ram:  Think fans fall in the trap of projecting a guy far before they have proven anything on the field. Yes the Browns would have one of the most physically talented tandems, but not one of the best

<adogbtown> Odrick at 7 or trade down??
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  Don't see why a guy like Odrick or a Dan Williams can't be considered as high as 7.  Tyson Jackson went no.3 overall, those two could have a similar late push
<adogbtown> SOBO, don't the Browns have much bigger needs than the D-line though?  Besides, they could probably trade down about 10 spots and still have a shot at Odrick, right?
<SOBOdawg> AdB: Bigger needs than three starters over the age of 30, one quality backup, one overpriced veteran who may or may not be shown the door, and table scraps past that point at end
<adogbtown> SOBO, for a team with as many needs as the Browns and D-line one of the stronger positions, Odrick at 7 sure seems like a reach to me.
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  Where do you go if the top four players are gone and neither of the QB's are considered elite guys (just hypothetically)?    HIGHLY doubt Oline is the answer.   Dez Bryant will probably not even be considered. Maybe Rolando McClain.   Who else really?
<FredGreetham> The Browns might be able to deal Rogers for a starting pick if they really feel Rubin will be fine.

<dawgbacker26> Do you see Carrington as a 3-4 end? What round do you see him in after his solid Senior Bowl Performance
<SOBOdawg> DB26:  Have Carrington slotted to the Jets in my mock directly after the Senior Bowl.   So yes and yes are the answers
<FredGreetham> I could see him move up to the second or late first

<underdawg55> If the draft was held today who would the Browns take
FredGreetham> Haden
<SOBOdawg> Agree with Fred on the pick at the moment
<SOBOdawg> Not sure he makes it there though

<adogbtown> SOBO, for me it's Berry/Haden, McClain, maybe Spiller
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  I've never been sold on McClain as a legit top 10 talent.  Spiller yes, but unfortunately the RB position's value has been driven way down in recent years
<FredGreetham> I would be fine with Spiller. James Davis would be replaced again by Spiller.

<howldawg> 5,0just the linemen and OT's there so far?
<FredGreetham> TE, P, K were available today with OL
<SOBOdawg> there were a couple low level QB prospects as well

<billbrasky09> Holmgren made it sound like interviews w/ players is getting ridiculous w/ limited time & BUZZERS that go off when time is up?! wouldn't there be incentive for teams to have longer, unauthorized discussions w/ players behind the scenes?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  Don't forget, teams are allowed 30 personal visits after this as well for much more in depth workouts and whatnot

<underdawg55> What round do you see the Browns taking a q.b.
<SOBOdawg> UD55:  Definitely see them taking one, but most likely from the 2nd round on.
<FredGreetham> I could see them using a third or fourth round pick on QB

<crazydog> Guys do you see Heckart trading back this year? and if so how far and who might they target?
<SOBOdawg> Crazy:  It's impossible to tell until they're on the clock and you see what's happened in front of the team.   This isn't last year where you try to trade out at all costs
<FredGreetham> I think the Browns might trade down if the guy they target is gone and they get another pick to move down a few spots


<billbrasky09> do you expect more trades w/ the draft spread out over several days and more time for teams to work stuff out w/ each other?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  Honestly, have no idea what to expect with this new format.   More trades do seem likely, but only time  will tell

<dawgbacker26> Sobo, who is your first FA signing for the Browns? Mine is Nate Burleson
<SOBOdawg> DB26:  Haven't really looked all that closely yet at the FA crop.  Still tryin to wrap my head around the, who is going to be restricted or not
<FredGreetham> I would take Burleson. They have to get a starting veteran receiver.

<billbrasky09> do you expect Corey Williams to be traded?
<FredGreetham> I think they might try or restructure his deal.

<adogbtown> Fred, don't you think one of Haden or Berry will be there at 7 though?  Mangini was with the Jets when they traded up for Revis a few years back.
<FredGreetham> I do right now and thats why today I say it's Haden

<adogbtown> I read that Veldheer's stock is on the rise and he could go in the 2nd round or even the late 1st?  That seems a little crazy to me.  What do you think?
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  Veldheer is very impressive physically and from a small school.   He's expected to test very well, helping himself tremendously
<adogbtown> SOBO, are teams viewing Velheer as a LT or RT?
<SOBOdawg> Adb:  Depends on the team and the situation.  He wasn't as impressive in his All Star appearance as some expected.   So we'll see how his movement skills show in the next couple of days

<FredGreetham> I see the Browns possibly trying to work something with Hasselbeck
<adogbtown> Fred, you think Seattle would trade Hasselbeck?  Who starts for the 'hawks then??
<FredGreetham> Haselbeck has one year left so its a guess what Carroll will do.

<dawgbacker26> Sobo, if you don't have McClain as a Top 10, unless the Browns move down he isn't likely the pick. Do you like anyone specific as ILB for the Browns in this draft? Your thoughts on Micah Johnson from UK?
<SOBOdawg> DdB:   It's not a strong class for those MAC linebackers in the 34.   Do like Jamar Chaney quite a bit from Mississippi State.   Also, Kavell Conner from Clemson.  But dont' forget, that could be where David Veikune lands eventually

<FredGreetham> I like Mayock and our guy Chris Steuber. .Sobo is the guy too. of course
<SOBOdawg> Thanks for the pity throw-in Fred.   :p

<adogbtown> Heckert was with the Eagles and they liked their O-linemen mammoth- Tra Thomas, Jon runyan, Shawn Andrews, Stacy Andrews, Max Jean-Gilles.  Think that pattern follows him to Cleveland or was that more Andy Reid?
<SOBOdawg> Adb:  It's not just Heckert.   Holmgren has stated he likes the big stout and physical interior blockers as well.   Don't forget I had them already talking to Ciron Black early in the process

<ramllov> SOBO, Fred, Eric Mangini talked last year about must and needs.  What are the musts and can they be picked up in this year's draft?
<FredGreetham> maybe unrealistic, but I think they need 3-4 starters from this draft
<SOBOdawg> Ram:  Right now this team is littered with "must needs".   Positions like safety, corner, running back, and offensive line are deep for the Browns
<FredGreetham> i think the musts are a starting safety, right tackle, wide receiver, cornerback
<ramllov> Can the Browns get them all in the draft this year?
<SOBOdawg> Ram:  No

<adogbtown> Sobo, on Black...he struggled at the Senior Bowl.  Do you see him as a tackle or guard?
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  I've always seen Black as a guard

<mikehey> what about picking the offensive line man from oaklahoma state
<SOBOdawg> Mike:  Why spend top ten money on another offensive linemen?  Especially one that won't be a particularly good fit as a RT?

<billbrasky09> sobo - I like your uncanny mock.  What other mocks would you recommend/respect around the interneties?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  The thing with Mocks are that they're all conversation pieces until the very end.    I do them primarily to keep my mind sharp on prospects and they're a stress reliever

<FredGreetham> A lot of the draft process will be determined by what is done or not done in free agency
<adogbtown> Agree Fred.  Not many UFA's this year though and those available will probably be cashing in.  Could be a tough market for a team like the Browns.

<dawgbacker26> @ the Senior Bowl did you like any of the Guards? Jerry/Ducasse/??? Anyone other than Iupati catch your eye?
<SOBOdawg> DB26:  Ducasse is probably as good a tackle prospect as a guard.  Love his first step while run blocker. Iupati is tremendously physically talented but needs technique work.  The Senior Bowl offensive linemen were generally underwhelming this year

<underdawg55> o you think there will be a lock out in 2011
<FredGreetham> it doesn't look good right now

<Pazienza> If this was already covered please ignore - what do you think the chances are that Tebow can successfully significantly improve his throwing motion to raise his draft stock?
<FredGreetham> I think he will over time but not in a month or two
<SOBOdawg> Paz:  This is an interesting question posed in the media room.   Can anyone actually remember a QB being asked to change his throwing motion and then do so successfully?    I believe Tebow has the physical tools, the mental makeup, and is a better passer than given credit for.   He just needs a lot of work

<billbrasky09> sobo - what good stories did you hear about tebow being less than Lordly at college?  anything fun?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  Simple college stuff.   Nothing more, nothing less

<howldawg> 5,0did you run into phil?
<SOBOdawg> Howl:  Have not seen Savage.   Sure he's stashed away working with his new team.

<ramllov> SOBO, Fred, it looks like the draft can provide starting CBs and Ss in the second and early third round, maybe even late third round it that an accurate assessment?
<FredGreetham> Thats what I think can happen

<dawgbacker26> Can anyone name 5 successful left handed QB's
<dawgbacker26> Steve Young, Elway, Fran Tarkenton?
<FredGreetham> Bobby Douglass, Ken Stabler, Paul McDonald should I keep going LOL

<Pazienza> Sam Rutigliano has spoken highly of the the CWRU Div 3 QB - any thoughts?
<SOBOdawg> Paz:  Funny part about Whalen out of Case is that I was trying to set up a workout with him just a few days ago to watch him and see what he had.

<adogbtown> Sounds like the Browns may have some interest in Tebow, judging by the comments of Holmgren & Heckert.
<FredGreetham> It will be interesting who works him out and brings him in.
<adogbtown> SOBO, I'm in the minority in that I like Tebow.  He has everything you need in a QB except a quick release and a nice throwing motion.  No one's gonna outwork that kid, so I wouldn't bet against him.
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  It's not just Tebow.  They have been picking through QB prospects since even before Holmgren took the job
<billbrasky09> but can he show folks what they're looking for via the combine?  or no?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  Tebow will have a few years to prove himself and this is just one of the steps to become an NFL QB

<billbrasky09> can Jerry Hughes answer questions via the combine that he could have answered by participating in senior bowl week?
<SOBOdawg> Bill:  Hughes would have definitely benefitted from playing in Mobile

<dawgbacker26> Who are your late round steals this year that could match up with the Browns?
<SOBOdawg> DB26:  Ask that question in the ATI, and I'll hit that up later

<adogbtown> How's the night life at the Combine??
<SOBOdawg> Adb:  It's good if you go out.  I'm not tonight.   Did spend all the nights out while in Alabama

<brownsclown> Where does Rolle come off the board? Impressive man, good football player
<FredGreetham> Rolle looks like a 5 to 6 round guy
<SOBOdawg> Clown:  Problem with Rolle is that he doesn't have good tape

<adogbtown> SOBO, do the scouts and execs go out or not so much??
<SOBOdawg> AdB:  Basically everyone goes out a little bit

<BarryMcBride> Chats Saturday and Monday
<SOBOdawg> that works

<SOBOdawg> alright gents, see you in a couple days


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